Octopus Free Electricity Sessions #973
Comments
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I logged in to make exactly the same request. |
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Yeah, me too! 😆 It doesn't look like they've added anything to the API for it, but maybe it will use the same mechanism as saving sessions? I guess we'll see tomorrow... |
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Thanks for raising. It feels like this doesn't offer a high tech solution yet as we're opting in via web forms. I too can't see anything in the API regarding these sessions and people have asked if there's an API in the OE forums, but have yet to have a reply. Once it's available, it'll be a top priority to add it as it will benefit a large number of people. |
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Thanks for very thorough answer & future commitment if & when Octopus add it to the API. 🤞👍🤙 |
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I simply added a calendar entry for tomorrow and created automations from that. If/when we get an API working, the calendar can be deleted and the automation trigger tweaked. |
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Same, I've added a calendar entry which will kick off some devices. But at ~4p per kWh on Agile I'll not be saving much. |
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Yea, exporting the battery charge before the free hour (and then re-charge) is worth more. |
I already have a calendar for Power-Ups (which coincide with this first session anyway) to trigger battery charging. I think this is a test of the "reverse saving sessions" that were announced as part of the extension of the grid balancing schemes. Those aren't due to start until after winter (in winter we get the regular saving sessions, then afterwards we get the reverse), so likely Octopus are running a few off their own back to gauge interest or work out how much to bid, or maybe even inform the process (not sure if there is industry discussion going on but I suspect it's likely). It will probably be merged into the Saving Sessions API when that scheme restarts. |
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+1 for this. Have an automation script to trigger everything to max import manually (or at specific time which seems to be 1pm generally) but would be great if for this integration to pick up anything the Octopus API exposes and use that as a trigger |
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With the second one happening today, it looks like the signup only happens once, and then you're opted in for all of them, unlike SSs. Whether this continues to be the case when the move out of trail phase clearly remains to be seen. I too suspect that Octopus are doing this to demonstrate the capability to the Grid. One thing that occurred to me during the last one, as my solar provided power to fully half of the stuff that I was doing to try to use more energy, is that I'm not entirely sure that it's worth it for IO customers with solar and battery, when you could potentially make more exporting the solar than you're saving against a shifted import cost of 7 p/kWh. Not entirely sure how to quantify it yet, but I'll add it to the list of things to think about when I have time! |
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given it's sunny and we've already got a full battery here I've set my solar and battery to export max (i.e. with battery topping up generation to max inverter rating) this morning and can then import and charge the battery for free and export that again later. As battery is rated 10kWh @5kw delta will be 5kWh in at 0p and out (later) at 15p => MAXIMUM +75p not accounting for loses over doing nothing PLUS whatever else we can import (e.g. immersion heater) LESS the local solar generation from 1-2pm. |
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As today is the second free energy day I was also thinking about setting up automations to schedule the home battery and th EV to charge. I also was also about to suggest adding an entity for free electricity (if available from the OE API) so would also use this enhancement. |
Yea, good point. I suppose you could set a rule based if it's a sunny day or not. |
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It depends on your solar setup. I'm on the original FIT scheme and we get paid 65p per kWh for generating, not for export. Plus, we're reducing curtailment, which is good for everyone. |
You don't necessarily lose the solar generation between 1-2pm because some people (like me) have DC coupled solar, so I can absorb solar energy into my batteries, as long as the batteries are not full, regardless of what I'm doing on the AC side. So for the first Free Electricity session, I force exported for an hour before the 1-2pm session then charged my batteries at max charge rate (70A) plus absorbed solar PV at (IIRC) 40A or so (it was a cloudy day) for a total of 110A battery charge current. By force exporting at around 4kW I netted an extra 60p of export and then I imported again for free at around 3.5kW to get my batteries more or less back to where they were. Actually my charge level afterwards was higher due to the simultaneous PV storage. |
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It would be great if we could find a way to take a set of household settings and auto generate rules. (where household settings includes electricity supplier details, ev details, solar details, battery details, heating details, goals etc) Could get complicated, I guess ... |
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Is it possible to over-ride the rate during the free periods? At present costs in HA are calculated based on the full rate (~24p for IOG). The results for the first session just dropped in, I imported nearly 6kWh extra during that period. Not too shabby given I generated 3kWh solar power at the same time. But instead of showing a cost of zero it is showing it as £1.45. |
I think this will be complicated to get accurate because the electricity used during the "free" period isn't actually all free. It's only the EXTRA energy you used compared to your 10 day average, and they even separate out week days and weekends when calculating what "normal" is for you. They also exclude free sessions when calculating normal. In my case I got told by Octopus that I used 10.47kWh overall and my normal consumption is 0.01kWh so I used 10.46kWh extra. That is 103524% more than normal and worth £2.40 according to them, but that's assuming I used that energy at peak rate when it's far more likely I would have used it at off-peak rate to charge my batteries, or for free from PV. |
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@craig1410 that is a good point. I was not clear, was wondering if there was a manual way to override the rate. Potentially retrospectively. I think it's off topic for the original feature request. |
This is a difficult one, as technically it's still cost you this amount it's just your account will be credited the difference. Some people might not want this deducted because of this technicality. However I'm currently building the sensors to show the target/baseline for saving sessions, which is a similar calculation. I'm not wanting to overload the the OE APIs to get the data for the target periods, so I'm hoping to try and build up a local copy of this data as I retrieve the previous consumption data. This principle could potentially be used for free electricity sessions, but will be difficult when importing retrospectively via the availale service. Alternatively, I might be able to look at the account balance for certain payloads which indicate credit from these sessions, but again this could be expensive when importing retrospectively. Either way, it's something that needs to be addressed (along with updating target rate sensors to optionally favour free electricity sessions, but this too could get complicated as it depends on what you're using the sensor for)
This was never built into the system as it was always assumed OE would provide the correct accurate data :) I'm also not sure it's possible with how HA stores the data, as they store each hour as an ever growing sum. This means if you want to change a record from a few days ago, you need to change all subsequent records. |
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A next session start date and time would do me. Just need something to automate the start of a session.
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From: David Kendall ***@***.***>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2024 5:23:37 PM
To: BottlecapDave/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy ***@***.***>
Cc: Gary-Manuel ***@***.***>; Comment ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [BottlecapDave/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy] Octopus Free Electricity Sessions (Issue #973)
I think this will be complicated to get accurate because the electricity used during the "free" period isn't actually all free. It's only the EXTRA energy you used compared to your 10 day average, and they even separate out week days and weekends when calculating what "normal" is for you. They also exclude free sessions when calculating normal.
This is a difficult one, as technically it's still cost you this amount it's just your account will be credited the difference. Some people might not want this deducted because of this technicality.
However I'm currently building the sensors to show the target/baseline for saving sessions, which is a similar calculation. I'm not wanting to overload the the OE APIs to get the data for the target periods, so I'm hoping to try and build up a local copy of this data as I retrieve the previous consumption data. This principle could potentially be used for free electricity sessions, but will be difficult when importing retrospectively via the availale service. Alternatively, I might be able to look at the account balance for certain payloads which indicate credit from these sessions, but again this could be expensive when importing retrospectively.
Either way, it's something that needs to be addressed (along with updating target rate sensors to optionally favour free electricity sessions, but this too could get complicated as it depends on what you're using the sensor for)
Is it possible to over-ride the rate during the free periods? At present costs in HA are calculated based on the full rate (~24p for IOG).
This was never built into the system as it was always assumed OE would provide the correct accurate data :) I'm also not sure it's possible with how HA stores the data, as they store each hour as an ever growing sum. This means if you want to change a record from a few days ago, you need to change all subsequent records.
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I put together something which publishes a JSON object with the start and end times of Power Ups in my region (NB: Power Ups are not the same as Free Electricity Session) here: https://www.whizzy.org/2024-01-24-powerups-api/ I'm currently adding support for Free Electricity Sessions (FES) too, and I will post here when it's working, likely in the next couple of days. It will use the same concepts but publish to a different JSON object so PUs and FESs will work independently. Until OE publish a proper API for FES people following this thread might find this new data source useful. Expect it to be fragile though. The style of the FES announcement emails hasn't completely settled down yet and my egregious use of regex will likely cause problems when it changes. I'm motivated to keep it working though, so a fix probably won't be far away. |
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That looks promising. Free Electricity should be easier to automate too as there is no need to opt in each time. Just grab start / end time and date and use those to trigger suitable automations that export prior to the session and then charge back up for the duration of the session. Automations already working but needs manual setting up and switching on. I'll have a closer look at the link you sent later. Thanks for that.
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From: Will Cooke ***@***.***>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2024 6:49:12 PM
To: BottlecapDave/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy ***@***.***>
Cc: Gary-Manuel ***@***.***>; Comment ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [BottlecapDave/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy] Octopus Free Electricity Sessions (Issue #973)
I put together something which publishes a JSON object with the start and end times of Power Ups in my region (NB: Power Ups are not the same as Free Electricity Session) here:
https://www.whizzy.org/2024-01-24-powerups-api/
I'm currently adding support for Free Electricity Sessions (FES) too, and I will post here when it's working, likely in the next couple of days. It will use the same concepts but publish to a different JSON object so PUs and FESs will work independently.
Until OE publish a proper API for FES people following this thread might find this new data source useful.
Expect it to be fragile though. The style of the FES announcement emails hasn't completely settled down yet and my egregious use of regex will likely cause problems when it changes. I'm motivated to keep it working though, so a fix probably won't be far away.
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@8none1 that looks a neat solution but you don't mention anywhere where in the country you live? Power Up sessions started in the East of England but I think they are now available in Scotland and the Midlands so may be different in each area. The Power Up sessions have been of variable benefit to me, and the free electricity sessions have so far been of zero benefit. The most two recent power up sessions (yesterday and today) coincided with with negative Octopus Agile rates so it wasn't financially worth it to sign up! But more than that, recent Power Up and Free electricity have been on sunny days when I'm generating and exporting more solar than I can charge into the battery so its simply not worth discharging and recharging the battery. On the subject of how to handle the finances of Free sessions in HA Energy dashboard, I have multiple tariffs on my import utility meter sensor and swap between the 'free' and 'day' rates at appropriate times. |
Good point. I didn't find a reliable way to get data about PUs in other regions and so never got round to adding location based feeds. The good news for @gcoan and @PianSom is that I'm also in Bedfordshire (Potton) so the feed is (generally) appropriate for them. I have a friend in Suffolk who has seen one different PU to me, so it's not perfect, but without a better data source from OE there isn't much I can do. Not wishing to take this issue further off topic, if anyone has ideas on how to solve this please open an issue on this project and we can chat there. |
Ha @8none1 amazing coincidence, I live in Wrestlingworth (which is the next village for those not local to East Bedfordshire)! Pretty sure we will get identical power up events. I've set the sensor up already and will test it next power up we get. |
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I've wrangled the regexs and have what might be a JSON object listing future Free Electricity Sessions (FES). As I mentioned, the style of the emails announcing FESs is a bit unpredictable, so it might take a little while to tweak the regex until such time as the wording on the emails is stable. I'll do what I can do keep it working, but I make no promises about it's reliability. The JSON data is published here: https://www.whizzy.org/octopus_powerups/free_electricity_session.json It's currently an empty list, because there are no future FES known. If you want to see the gory details the GS script is here but you will need to get it set up in Google Apps Script yourself. Do note however, there is no need to run it yourself since FESs seem to be UK wide so the data source URL above, which is hosted on Github's infra and so should be highly available and fast, should work for everyone who has signed up to FES. Unlike Power Ups there is no need to also complete an opt-in form to benefit from the free power. I haven't yet integrated this in to HA, but it will be essentially the same as detailed here. See the |
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BCD
That sound great. Hope your source uses a proper date format rather than the unformatted text that is used on the website. Some of the past events even have different format to the latest one.
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From: David Kendall ***@***.***>
Sent: 14 September 2024 20:26
To: BottlecapDave/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy ***@***.***>
Cc: Gary-Manuel ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [BottlecapDave/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy] Octopus Free Electricity Sessions (Issue #973)
When asked in the OE forums, it didn't sound like this would be added officially anytime soon. I plan to try and take a look at a solution as part of the integration, but using my own source as I don't want to piggy back off other people's solutions and potentially increase their demand. This should include
* Binary sensor similar to saving sessions
* Event sensor similar to saving sessions
* Option in target rate sensors to favour free electricity sessions
* Stretch goal of optionally taking free sessions into account when calculating costs for previous/current costs
This might not make the next release, as that will be focusing on some saving session features and intelligent API changes.
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Here's my solution:
Code:
sensors.yaml:
3b Ditto script for Power up events:
Its basically a matter of clicking Execute on the Free electricity or Power up script which copies the rest data into the helper entities at the top of the screen and they can then be used by normal automations in HA I also have an automation that detects when the REST API has retrieved new Octopus event details - see #973 (comment) |
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Thankyou
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Sent: 15 September 2024 10:19
To: BottlecapDave/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy ***@***.***>
Cc: Gary-Manuel ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [BottlecapDave/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy] Octopus Free Electricity Sessions (Issue #973)
Here's my solution:
1. Three date time helpers, a date only octopus_power_up_date, and time only octopus_power_up_start_time and _end_time
2. REST API calls to retrieve the times of the power up and free electricity events https://github.com/8none1/octopus_powerups
These are setup in configuration.yaml to retrieve the times into HA sensors
3. Scripts that decode the start/end date/times from the above HA sensors and write the REST API sensors into the 3 helper sensors
4. A dashboard which shows the helper entities (and manually change them), write those sensors to predbat’s apps.yaml, see the REST API sensors (with the retrieved Octopus event details) and invoke the scripts that decode those sensors into the helper entities
Code:
1. my configuration.yaml:
sensor: !include sensors.yaml
sensors.yaml:
# Octopus Power up times
- platform: rest
name: "Octopus Power Up Times"
unique_id: octopus_power_up_times
resource: "https://www.whizzy.org/octopus_powerups/powerup.json"
scan_interval: 900
json_attributes_path: "$.[0]"
json_attributes:
- start
- end
# Octopus Free electricity times
- platform: rest
name: "Octopus Free Electricity Times"
unique_id: octopus_free_electricity_times
resource: "https://www.whizzy.org/octopus_powerups/free_electricity_session.json"
scan_interval: 900
json_attributes_path: "$.[0]"
json_attributes:
- start
- end
1. Script to retrieve the free electricity times from the REST API and write them into the 3 octopus power up helper entities.
The REST API gets the Octopus date and time in UTC so have to convert to unix time and then back to local time in the right format to write to the helper time entities:
alias: Set Octopus Power Up helpers from free electricity REST sensor
sequence:
- action: input_datetime.set_datetime
target:
entity_id: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_date
data:
date: >-
{% set dt=state_attr('sensor.octopus_free_electricity_times','start') %}
{% if dt != None %}
{{ as_timestamp(dt)|timestamp_custom('%Y-%m-%d') }}
{% endif %}
- action: input_datetime.set_datetime
target:
entity_id: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_start_time
data:
time: >-
{% set
st_time=state_attr('sensor.octopus_free_electricity_times','start') %}
{% if st_time != None %}
{{ as_timestamp(st_time)|timestamp_custom('%X') }}
{% endif %}
- action: input_datetime.set_datetime
target:
entity_id: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_end_time
data:
time: >-
{% set en_time=state_attr('sensor.octopus_free_electricity_times','end')
%} {% if en_time != None %}
{{ as_timestamp(en_time)|timestamp_custom('%X') }}
{% endif %}
description: ""
3b Ditto script for Power up events:
alias: Set Octopus Power Up helpers from Power Up electricity REST sensor
sequence:
- action: input_datetime.set_datetime
target:
entity_id: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_date
data:
date: >-
{% set dt=state_attr('sensor.octopus_power_up_times','start') %} {% if
dt != None %}
{{ as_timestamp(dt)|timestamp_custom('%Y-%m-%d') }}
{% endif %}
- action: input_datetime.set_datetime
target:
entity_id: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_start_time
data:
time: >-
{% set st_time=state_attr('sensor.octopus_power_up_times','start') %} {%
if st_time != None %}
{{ as_timestamp(st_time)|timestamp_custom('%X') }}
{% endif %}
- action: input_datetime.set_datetime
target:
entity_id: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_end_time
data:
time: >-
{% set en_time=state_attr('sensor.octopus_power_up_times','end') %} {%
if en_time != None %}
{{ as_timestamp(en_time)|timestamp_custom('%X') }}
{% endif %}
description: ""
1. Dashboard card to pull all these bits together.
type: entities
entities:
- entity: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_date
- entity: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_start_time
- entity: input_datetime.octopus_power_up_end_time
- type: divider
- entity: sensor.octopus_free_electricity_times
- type: button
icon: mdi:script-text-play-outline
name: Set free electricity times
action_name: Execute
tap_action:
action: perform-action
perform_action: script.set_octopus_power_up_helpers_from_free_electricity_rest_sensor
- type: divider
- entity: sensor.octopus_power_up_times
- type: button
icon: mdi:script-text-play-outline
name: Set Power Up electricity times
action_name: Execute
tap_action:
action: perform-action
perform_action: >-
script.set_octopus_power_up_helpers_from_power_up_electricity_rest_sensor
Its basically a matter of clicking Execute on the Free electricity or Power up script which copies the rest data into the helper entities at the top of the screen and they can then be used by normal automations in HA
I do have an automation that detects when the REST API has retrieved new Octopus event details but this isn't working perfectly yet so I'll finish debugging it before sharing
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Final bit of the power-up/free electricity jigsaw, an automation that detects when there is a new power up or free electricity event (as registered by the REST sensor) and raises an alert. Could quite easily automate this to invoke the scripts to decode the REST response and update the helper date/time entities (and make any other automations you want), but I'd prefer to be a bit more in control. Amend the URL in the automation to the pathname of the Powerup dashboard so clicking on the notification results in the correct dashboard page being opened.
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I wrote up how I'm triggering automations in this post: https://www.whizzy.org/2024-09-14-free-electricity-sessions/ |
A nice clear writeup of how to configure the rest API and a 'session active' binary sensor. My use case uses the first bit of your solution but I want to know in advance the date and time of the sessions as I need to program them into Predbat which manages my battery & solar inverter activity. Predbat decides (and executes) whether to discharge my battery ahead of the session and then charge up in the session or not. If the sessions coincide with a sunny day then often its not worth discharging as I'll be generating more solar than I can charge into the battery, so its better to just export the excess. The API is working great and with my scripts and automations I have a great way to feed this into HA and Predbat |
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Just wanted to login and say thank you @gcoan for your work; this is great. |
Thanks @Leventionz glad to hear its of use. I have made a minor set of updates to scripts 3 and 3b #973 (comment) as there was a bug that if the REST sensor wasn't populated with times of a free electricity/power up event and you ran the script, it failed. This is now fixed, so running either script when there isn't a future event scheduled, the script just leaves the input_datetime's unchanged. And for those that are using predbat to automate their battery charging and discharging, the following script can be used to automatically send the details of the powerup/free electricity event into Predbat via the new Predbat manual API: |
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While it's probably a little late, the v13.1.0 release now has the first stage for free electricity sensors. This includes a binary sensor to indicate if you're in a free electricity session and a baseline sensor for you to know when you've reached the point where free electricity is starting to be awarded to you. These sensors are being powered by a private API, which I'll be monitoring the activity of. This means the data might be delayed in coming through as I need to update the data manually. I'll switch these over to the official APIs once they become available. The next stage will see the ability for target rate sensors to optionally favour free electricity periods, which will hopefully be in the next major/minor release. |
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Are there any rumours of Power-ups making it to the official API also? |
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There arent currently any rumours on the forums about either free electricity or power hours coming across to the official APIs. But free electricity is more likely due to its wider national use (if the trial was successful) |
The problem with the Octopus Power Up events is they can be quite localised. @PianSom lives in CB24 and I live in SG19, we're about 10 miles apart but whilst the first set of Power up events were the same, they are increasingly being specific to the postcode. I have an event today from 11:30-1:30pm, the same day that Agile prices peak at 86p, he does not. Power up really will need an official Octopus API linked to your account, or an API to parse your email for the event notification as @8none1 has done |
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Indeed, the complexity around power ups is enormous. The mapping from postcode to power up regions alone was in the 100s. Then the only resource for power ups for each region is email (no website that I can see for each posted region like free electricity), so would rely on a large community source to keep the data relevant which would have a large admin attached. I have a plan to try and expose a service where you can assign a weighting to rate blocks, which would then be used by the target rate sensors. This means that external data sources can influence the target rate sensors without having to directly integrate with the integration. This could be used by external power hour sources to influence target rate sensors or by other sources like solar forecasts. |
Yeah me too. Well, similar anyway. I've created an automation (similar to, but obviously the opposite of, my Savings Sessions automation (switching everything on rather than off)) that I turn on when I get the email from Octopus (either in the automations page or, as they always tend to be at 1pm and last an hour, via a widget that enables it for the next 1pm), and then at the end of the sequence, I've set it to automatically disable itself, just in case I forget to do it manually (I don't want it kicking in every day until I remember to switch it off 😂😂). I was going to do it via a calendar entry but, tbh, as they're always at the same time, creating the calendar event (even by finding the last one and copying and pasting it) seemed like more effort than a widget click to re-enable the automation. Obviously, the savings sessions, while generally in the same time frame (early evening peak hours), they're much more variable in terms of start time and, occasionally, duration, so a calendar entries may work better for that, although so far, I've just been enabling the Savings automation and setting the duration manually when I get the Savings email/pop up.....because of a question I've had for a while 👇 and this seems like the perfect time to ask lol. When you're using a calendar entry for automations, do you have it set up so that the duration of the calendar event marks the beginning and end of the automation, or do you set a 2nd entry to switch everything off again? I've never worked out how to do the former. Am I just being dense? Or am I searching for a solution that doesn't exist, yet? Thanks |
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Use the event.end event ... triggers:
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Just to add.. I do the same with calendars.. but I have an automation which triggers 1 hr prior to the event start time to have my battery discharge to the grid, ready to the filled again. |
I'm interested why you would do this. Unless you're being paid for export surely this doesn't make sense financially. From a grid balancing perspective, exporting just before a time of excess power on the grid also seems counterintuitive. |
Yes I'm paid for export at 15p/kWh |
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Is the integration working for tomorrow? It's not showing up on the event (but has previous ones) and it doesn't show on next period on the binary sensor. |
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I'm seeing the same thing, but wonder if its Octopus's end? |
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BTW: I added support for this to Predbat now, so should talk to Octopus integration and automatically charge the battery: https://github.com/springfall2008/batpred/releases/tag/v8.7.1 |
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Can anyone tell me if this trigger for when a free energy session is announces is correct?
YAML format: And I've copied this from the documentation, but when I try to manually run the action, I get this |
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The stopgap API data at https://oe-api.davidskendall.co.uk/free_electricity.json does not seem to have the upcoming data |
If you want this to work immediately you can edit Can't provide any guarantees of how well this will work (or how long I will support it), since it's live scraping the Octopus site with a Cloudflare Worker. It will also only show the most recent/upcoming since I haven't got it scraping the "historic" entries.
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Excellent, thank you. Have made the change, and also updated Predbat. Battery system is now planning a charge at the right hours. |
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I unfortunately missed the email for the new session. The session was added at around 6:15am this morning. If you reload the integration, it should force the data to be updated using my source. |
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I've made changes so I shouldn't miss the email in the future, but if I'm slow to update, you can raise a PR at https://github.com/BottlecapDave/OctopusEnergyApi to update the data. |
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@jacoscar You can't manually trigger the action in the docs because it uses a source trigger, for which there is none when manually run. It should fire when the sessions become available. |
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As part of the latest release, you can now update target rate sensors to favour free electricity sessions https://bottlecapdave.github.io/HomeAssistant-OctopusEnergy/setup/target_rate/#free-electricity-weighting Because of this, I'll be closing this issue as basic support for free electricity sessions is now available. Please raise new issues for bugs or feature requests. |
and others
Describe the feature
I’ve received a email from octopus today advertising their free electricity sessions.
Is there a way this can be integrated into this integration. For example similar to saving sessions with a sensor or an event? Would be nice to be able to automate based on free electricity.
https://octopus.energy/free-electricity
Expected behaviour
N/A
Use Case
A sensor to be able to automate from.
Confirmation
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