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Bluetooth CT, Walls, False-positives, Distances, RSSI, etc. #188
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Hi @KAepora; thanks for your comment. In short, we don't know yet how well Bluetooth contact-tracing itself will work, this is more a choice because other alternatives are (in our opinion) less privacy-preserving. This is a hard problem for sure; if you have specific inputs, please let us know and we'll forward it to the appropriate team ! |
I don't have anything in the way of a solution right now, but discourage the assignment of the
...there is a lack of empirical data on the viability of the primary wireless communication standard being considered. I think it's important to keep this discussion going until the following steps have been taken:
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Sure, and so my general answer is the same as in #41 and #49 : we know this is a hard problem and specific inputs are much appreciated ! EDIT: We are of:
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Use of near-ultrasound in addition to Bluetooth could be helpful to reduce the amount of false positives. See: https://nlnet.nl/project/Simmel or the Austrian Red Cross app. |
Hi all, as an engineer researching on tracking and positioning technologies with IoT, we need to formalize the technical problem of proximity (in parallel with the privacy and security issues) and define the use cases and technical requirements from the epidemiologist experts. My point of view is to question the epidemiologist experts to define the main use cases. the important metrics of proximity and parameters taking into account the infectious models. Besides, these well-defined use cases and metrics of proximity will allow to test and evaluate the performance of every solution. Hope that help and best regards from Spain, |
The only information which is missing is the strength of the antenna of the mobile from A. Because the EphID is changed every minute we know how long the contact was. The parameters can be changed later, after some testing of the app is done. |
BlueTrace made some measurements about strengths of transmissions for various phones: https://github.com/opentrace-community/opentrace-calibration/blob/master/Device%20Data.csv |
@ibarman :
I understand you are speaking for the DP-3D project here. Thanks for being frank about your status on this matter.
As requested, here is some detailed expert input on the hard problem. In various comments, others have already pointed out specific mechanisms and hurdles that make using Bluetooth for distance measurements between phones hard. I will not add to that list here. My goal in this writeup is to document my my best current expert guess about likely system level performance for the April 12 white paper design. This means estimating false positive and false negative rates in the envisaged contact warning messages to users. I will also document some implications of my best current guess, implications for systems design and for the problem of broader communication to the EU public. TL;DR: An app relying exclusively on Bluetooth measurements will likely not be useful. A pivot to a multi-sensor approach is the most promising solution direction. More details below. Credentials, methods, limitations I will first say something about my credentials as an expert. In the last 15 years, I have worked several times in projects that developed and/or evaluated location tracking systems. These projects were done in various industrial R&D lab settings, in labs with deep and world-class organizational experience in bringing new systems with wireless technology to market. Some of these projects involved smart phones measuring Bluetooth beacon signal strength, and I have some personal experience with these measurements. I have no specific hands-on experience for system setups where the beacon sending device is also a smart phone, so part of my opinion relies on extrapolating results from adjacent cases. In the paragraph above am on purpose not naming the specific company labs that I worked for. This is to stress that I am only speaking for myself here, speaking as an engineer and scientist with a PhD degree and broad subject-relevant experience. Curious readers will be able to find the missing names by searching the web. In order to make the TL;DR statement above and the more detailed statements below, I inevitably had to factor in my understanding of what is currently known about the existence and statistics of the different mechanisms by which the covid-19 infection is transmitted by presymptomatic persons. My main source of reference has been the televised weekly expert briefing and Q&A for the Dutch government, but in the last few weeks I have also occasionally skimmed some of the preprint studies about infection routes that have been mentioned on the web. These studies give me a current best guess picture where distance alone is not the only factor going into the equation, which is actually good, because accurately measuring the exact distance for all contact events, especially short-duration contact events, with Bluetooth alone is pretty much impossible. Best current guess on the viability of the current design My expert best current guess is that distance measurements relying on Bluetooth exclusively, when further translated into cross-infection probabilities, will end up producing a warning message mix that will be useless or worse, because it will be entirely dominated by false positives and false negatives. So I am giving a somewhat high-confidence negative prediction here, specifically for the April 12 white paper system. More generally, this prediction applies to any app based approach that takes the non-use of any data source, other than measurements of Bluetooth beacons transmitted between smart phones, as an axiomatic basis. Obviously, I cannot prove a negative prediction, and note that I have not made any attempt to quantify the notion of 'not useless' in terms of numeric false positive and false negative rates. Informally, for me, useful means that the app materially adds to the beneficial effect of the more traditional WHO-recommended contact tracing methods which I expect will be used in the EU in the near future to manage R0 while lockdown measures are gradually lifted. I could end this writeup here, noting that more research is likely needed, if EU governments are to make a convincing case for the adoption of the novel type of contact tracing app were are talking about here. But the the obvious next question is: can accuracy be improved by extending the white paper app design, dropping the Bluetooth-exclusive approach? What are the accuracy improvement options? To get the false positives and negatives in messages to users down to a rate where the app will be useful, I expect that sensor data fusion techniques will have to be used. In these techniques, Bluetooth signal strength data is combined with other sensor data, and the combination is used to compute the risk metric that triggers the messages. Ultrasound (or audible sound) based range measurements have already been mentioned as an additional sensor mechanism that can estimate distance. My expert opinion is that sound is a promising candidate. However, the use of sound will also make de-anonymization attacks by eavesdropping easier. There is a tradeoff that will need to be investigated. I have medium confidence that adding sound based distance measurements alone will not be sufficient. It is important to note that sensor fusion can apply to more than just the sub-problem of improving distance accuracy. I expect that knowing the context of each Bluetooth contact event will end up being key to next step in risk prediction, maping contact event distance+duration estimates to cross-infection risk contribution estimates. Some examples of radically different contact event contexts are: 1) the user was walking down a street, 2) driving a car alone, 3) a passenger in a bus, 4) having dinner in a restaurant, 5) shopping in a supermarket. A trivial-case example: contact events detected while a self-reporting infected person was alone driving a private car, events that detected proximity to drivers in other cars, are in the optimal case ignored completely when calculating cross-infection risk. I now turn to the question of how this contact event context data could be obtained. A first promising method is to use GPS-based location measuremens, or more generally the location facilities of the smart phone OS. The location of a contact event can be used to get the terrain type of the location from a digital map, with the terrain type (road, residential area, shopping area) often yielding a reasonable context estimate. (I will talk about the privacy aspects of this processing in the next paragraph). Automated map matching can be further augmented and improved by relying on the memory of the self-reported infected user, as triggered by reviewing a map that plots out a logged location of history in detail. Were you in a private car or did you take a taxi? Slightly more high-tech, the accelerometer in the phone can be coupled to an algorithm that estimates the current type of phone movement: there are different fingerprints that can be detected for walking, driving, sitting stationary, etc. I will now outline how the above context based sensor fusion could happen in a privacy friendly way by extending design 2 of the DP-3T white paper. The app is extended to measure and locally log the position of the user, as determined by the OS location services. However, these position logs are never uploaded to any central or distributed database. The logs are only access and processed once, during the data redaction step of design 2, where the infected person voluntarily works with the health authorities to prepare and upload time-ranges of EphID values (or cryptographic equivalent) from their phone. These uploaded EphID values will be annotated with context tags denoting context types, or alternatively only with a single numeric risk-adjustment multiplication factor. Phones from other users that obtain the redacted and annotated data from a backend server will use the annotations when computing personal risk scores. Note that the redaction step above may also lead to the the decision to simply omit the uploading of EphID data for large time periods altogether, e.g. at all times when the infected user was at home. This redaction decision can often be made because both the privacy (de-anonymization) risks and false positive risks of including this data would far outweigh any risks that omission would create a false negative leading to under-awareness of risk. I include this example specifically to show that privacy and accuracy are not always natural sworn enemies in every possible system design step. No guarantee of successful improvement Though I am pointing out the routes to improvement which I consider to be most promising, I am far from sure that even the combined use of all likely improvements will be sufficient to achieve specific hoped-for levels of app effectiveness. It is possible that these levels will forever remain out of reach. My uncertainty here is caused for a large part by the current general uncertainty about the statistical rates for the various different infection transmission mechanisms, and how these rate couple to contact distance, duration, and location type. Worries about never-GPS rallying cries I have been looking at the media and privacy advocacy landscape in the last 10 days, admittedly from a mostly Dutch and English language perspective. What I see worries me. I see the emergence of a rallying cry that rejects the use of GPS categorically. In the phrasing of interview talking points and manifesto slogans, the term GPS is somewhat weirdly being used as a convenient shorthand for the unwanted scenario where a government collects a huge mount of location data without meaningful oversight or accountability. The effect of carelessly labeling GPS as the enemy is that it might end up burning down some bridges too soon. I worry about an outcome where a this meme will crystallize to create a climate where it becomes impossible for any EU government to promote the voluntary mass adoption of any opt-in app, no matter how transparent or accountable, that leverages GPS in any way. That would be a very bad outcome. |
The problem isn't GPS, it is the connotation that GPS most often means logging of GPS coordinates (lat/lon) and spreading those data around. The NYT has de-anomised an anonymous dataset they obtained and contacted individuals they could derive from the data. The isn't such a thing as Anonymous Location data unless it is bare lat/lon data. (no related ID however random it may be, no timestamps) |
It took me a while, but now I see it: "Proximity" is in the name of DP^3T! It served us well to stress that detecting potentially infectious encounters could be done without storing location traces. However, now it starts to get in the way. Just like 'distance' in 'social distancing'. Remember, the goal is NOT to trace proximity between people in the most accurate way we can. Rather, the goal is to detect potentially infectious encounters between people, in such a way that if a few days later one of these is confirmed positive, the other can be notified. In real life, no detector is 100% accurate. To fight COVID-19 an infectious encounter detector doesn't need to be. Its true positive rate in combination with its true negative rate just needs to be 'better' than the alternatives we have now. As argued also above, proximity (i.e. physical distance between 2 persons) is NOT the only factor in detecting infectious encounters. Is there a word starting with P that captures the idea of potentially infectious encounter better? Then we could thange the name without changing the acronym DP^3T. |
As suggested above, ultrasound may help as an additional sensor to detect potentially infectious encounters better. Applying ultrasound can help in two ways:
However, applying ultrasound also has its drawbacks:
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And we should not forget, one sensor that we can still thrown in the mix: the human user! If a mix of sensor input gets it right most of the time, it might be acceptable to leave some judgement to the human user. Rating a questionable infectious encounter situation just after it happened may be much easier than several days later, when you've just had the news of a positive test and are asked to remember your contact history, possibly being distracted by other worries at that moment. |
We are going to start doing some near ultrasound experiments with the MEGAphone prototypes we have here, as they give direct hardware access to the microphone and speaker, and its microphones by a stroke of luck are sensitive up to ~30KHz or higher, with actual peak sensitivity at 26KHz, if we can find a speaker that is good to that frequency. If we have any success, we'll be sure to report it. |
In my writeup above, writing as a location tracking technology expert, I concluded that an app relying exclusively on Bluetooth measurements will likely not be useful. So what would happen if you ask the same general question to an epidemiologist reasoning from their expertise? TL;DR This sort of happened today [April 18]. Same best current guess negative answer. To unpack this, the Dutch government did a webcast today, the first day of a two-day public-participation contact tracking 'appathon', involving 7 proposed apps and 7 proposing teams. This appathon is causing some controversy, but I won't talk about that here. The news relevant to this issue number is that detailed statements about first app impressions were made by invited representatives of the GGD. The GGD is the branch of the Dutch health authorities directly responsible for contact tracing. So these GGD first impression comments are probably as close as you can get right now in the Netherlands if you want to pin down an epidemiologist and ask for a public best current guess. Here are subject-relevant highlights from the webcast, as summarized from notes I made.
Edited to add on April 20: I just noticed that this repository already contains a paper with earlier epidemiologist best current guess input at https://github.com/DP-3T/documents/blob/master/COVID19%20Response%20-%20What%20Data%20Is%20Necessary%20For%20Digital%20Proximity%20Tracing.pdf . This document is more optimistic about fully automated methods than the Dutch views reported above. Apologies for not referencing this earlier. |
There is an aspect here being overlooked, that being the 'time aspect'. Has there been much discussion or agreement on what period of time should two people be in close proximity of each other to to decide that the EphID should be logged? Using the RSSI from one advert is going to be very unreliable as a distance measurement, to maintaining battery life I assume the adverting rate and scanning rates will be chosen so there is detection at about the rate of 1s or so, so it could take 20 to 30s get a good estimate of range or distance. And go have somebody buy 10 of the same phone model and plot the polar response of the antenna, they will not be consistent. So stop trying to create or calibrate fudge factors for popular makes and models of certain phones. |
A useful level of discussion and agreement was on display among Dutch epidemiologists, in the appathon mentioned above. They went to great lengths to state repeatedly that measured short-duration contact events, like two people walking past each other at <1.5m (and there might be a windowpane in between, or not, and Bluetooth will not know), have no relevance whatsoever. These events should simply never lead to the stil-healthy person later receiving a warning that they need to self-isolate for N days. Without discarding short events, a huge number of people would be needlessly asked to self-isolate. So the epidemiologists could not care less about the accuracy of the distance measurement of the above short event. This is a positive for the technical problem of distance measurement, for the reasons you mention above. For the record, to arrive at my negative my best current expert guess above, I factored in an expectation that distance accuracy for any contact event less than 1 minute long is irrelevant, and that for for events of less than 5 minutes, it is also not a huge concern.
Somewhat related to this: Inherent directional non-uniformity in antenna response in smart phones has been bugging me, and on top of that comes the phone-in-pocket subcase. I searched the open web and have not found any useful angular plot data yet. I skimmed the tests at https://github.com/opentrace-community and https://github.com/pepp-pt/pepp-pt-documentation/tree/master/12-proximity-measurement (the last one appeared just 2 days ago), but need to read them in full later. In both of these, the phone in pocket experimental design is under-reported to the extent where I am not sure if it tells me anything at all about a contact event where one or two human bodies are blocking the direct line of sight between the two phone antennas. By the way; I have experience in wireless test design, also test design that can compensate for not having access to fancy test chambers or calibrated test antennas. If anybody out there is planning tests and wants me to review or help with their test design, feel free to contact me by e-mail. |
@zukunft : despite having a hard time explaining the public that enabling the GNSS will not result in tracing you, there are still lots of unsolved cases with this technique (underground transports, etc.) |
@Matioupi Yes, I agree with you that enabling the GNSS will be hard to explain to many. I think this feature should not be in the first version of the standard app. And I agree, that this will not solve all Bluetooth false-positive cases, but it can solve some. E.g. for the pedestrian problem that you mention the app probably cannot decide if you are a pedestrian or if you have been in the "save" car. If the app shows the smartphone owner the place of the positive contact, the owner might remember, if he used the car or if he has been walking. The first reaction of a user could be that he is afraid if he gets a "positive" message and I could be a great relief if he knows, where it happened. |
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@peterboncz : what you call the danger score is called Risk Scoring function in DP-3T documents. |
Hello everyone, I would have an operational proposal that starts from the fact that the conditions for detecting distances are too variable. In our context, however, the real use case needs to understand how devices behave at the Droplet distance (2 meters) only, not at all possibly distances.
or the simplest We can calculate some Average constants and an average behavior that refine the distance calculation. We, with my company, are developing an application for use in companies. In a company the environment is much more controlled and we can think of involving users. Furthermore, the proximity relationships are always in very similar environments, probably allowing for fewer variables. If you agree, we could base our realization on this assumption, and begin to determine data from a protected environment (with environmental constants with little variance) and share the results. |
@gbounch I'm not surprised that tuning power level adjustments based on user feedback did not work: For example, if one attempts to tune rxPowerAdj for a smartphone of type X while receiving beacons from a non-reference, non-calibrated smartphone of type Y, the tuned rxPowerAdj will also include an inappropriate correction to account for the missing or wrong parameter txPowerAdj of smartphone type Y. Tuning for a smartphone type X should be done only in a controlled lab environment, and only while testing X against a reference smartphone type REF. As described in the paper and in my summary #188 (comment) above, three steps are required:
While these parameters are independent of distance d, they can be determined accurately by repeating (and averaging) the calculations over multiple distances d. I believe that the author of [1] is already working on a test specification, where I assume effects such as TX and RX antenna directivity can be averaged out. |
I know that your proposed model is perfect. Requires a large number of measurements for each device, and it is simply impossible for someone to start testing for all devices. |
Hi all, I'm a co-author of this paper where we analysed the data from a early version of PEPP-PT with experiments done in German barracks. In this paper we propose a simple yet powerful model for contact event detection. For this we proposed several metrics (functions of risk depending on distance) and a reference sequence (e.g. being closer than 1.5m for 15 minutes). Together with labelled data (distances and RSSI measurements) we were able to train a very simple linear regression model on three features (mean, max and length) and already achieved quite convincing true and false positives rates. as a disclaimer: this experiments are done with same devices, this is of course not enough. But we also tested with different devices and observed only minor effects (once calibration is computed). Please let me know if this is useful, I could share our code in case of necessity ;) |
HI helme, for me it is very interessting, your paper says that if we collect RSSI from all devices and the exposition time, asking user (some one) to label his distance we can have more data about more devices so to let this model react better. |
Yes sure, I think there is a lot of possibilities to scale the data-labeling-process. Can someone point me towards to data-collection-process in DP3T? especially to the test done with the swiss army? I think they already get labeled data using cameras. |
@helme : From what I read in non-covid related indoor positionning techniques paper (where the phone is usually hand holded as they are adressing location finding process where you need real time interraction with the app) non fingerprinted RSSI only ranging techniques (usually ranging to fixed calibrated beacons in those papers) yelds to about 1 to 1.5 m average error when sampled for long enough. min to max range seems to be more like 2.5-3 m. Do you have an idea of the sensibility of your model training to the distance accuracy ? (in other world, if real world data collection condition were to 2-2.5 m errors, how would your model behave ?) |
The phones were carried in the hands. In later studies we also tested with different holding position (head, pocket, hand) and observed no major effects. Nevertheless this is a valid concern from you. But we observed that these effects cancel out when collecting data over a longer period of time.
This was not studied yet in detail, but the model will just behave somewhat "linear" i.e. the risk increases with higher aggregated RSSI-values. This can be overcome by calibration (as described in #204) |
@helme wrote:
For me personally, my comments are hoping to guide this group into not putting too much effort into aiming for absolute accuracy as there are just too many variables. The structure of the buildings play a big factor. A lot of thought and energy can be put into this subject for realistically very little reward. The problem with any calibration, is you have to rely on the user to estimate what 2m/6ft looks like. Can you trust them to do that? And would a malicious person perform the calibration such that it convinced the app that 6m/18ft should be seen as 2m/6ft? Thereby creating many false positives if they later do test CV19 positive. @helme wrote:
I looked at the paper. I did not see the scanning and advertising rates used. If you used something like the NrfConnect app to do these tests and have set rates to high values, this is not realistic for long term use as it would drastically reduce battery life. At advertising rates of 250 to 300ms and scanning duty cycle of less than 5% (it is the scanning duty cycle which reduces the battery life more than the advertising rate, but you do not want to crank up the advertising rate and pollute the airspace with advert packets) a device may detect packets from each device at about 2s intervals. So how many of those packets did you process and average? No scheme should be based on single detected BLE adverts. |
Thank you @pzboyz , when you say that a correct accurracy gives little reward you say that it is not in scope to have notifications that the user is too near to the other one. Furthermore, if the user is asked to place himself at "droplet" distance, we may not know exactly how far he is going(2 or 6 mt), but a machine learning model can still give a correct approximation and remove cases of measurements that are too oversized. moreover, if we decide that this approach can work then we can proceed with user support using ultrasound or the camera during the "labeling" phase to be sure that the distance between the two devices is correct. |
Hi, we are planning to create some test data of the bt behavior in handshackes to train a model.
later we will think about label data with something about location (inside/outside) (town, free space) talking whith the gps info. |
@pzboyz @helme I have not been following all posts in this thread in the last 6 days, but I want to say I agree with and echo the warning
See also my first post above, where I recommend a sensor fusion approach, to improve the accuracy of infection risk prediction given how bad I expect Bluetooth to be, and also given my knowledge that Bluetooth accuracy can depend a lot on the location you are in. But for those who are not discouraged by this: @gbounch I have a lot of experience with test design for the type of large parameter space RF test you are planning conducting. Feel free to reach out to me if you would like me to spend an hour with you in a telco to interactively discuss the test setup you are considering. There is an option for you to use wifi packet unicast/broadcast and sniffing on Android (not sure if this is also possible on iOS) to greatly accelerate exploring the test space for worst-case outliers. This option exists because almost all smart phones use the same tx/rx antenna for both Bluetooth and WiFi. |
(This post uses radio technology jargon I usually try to avoid when posting here, so the intended audience of this post is RF technoloy experts only) @helme thanks for clarifying some details of about the design of the German range tests. You write
It is a relief to know you also did pocket tests, I had been wondering about that, but I still have open questions:
My own gut feeling and experience: For ranges under 4 m, the existence or non-existence of local multipath reflections will play a major role in determining RSSI-to-distance accuracy, with the floor (carpet-covered concrete? grass?) the measurement is done on and the presence or absence of a ceiling being the major multipath drivers. For longer distances the path loss exponent matters more, but with the shorter distances that are mainly of interest here, you are in a 1x1 antenna multipath fading regime, that may or may nor have a line of sight dominant path. The hopping between the 3 Bluetooth socal channels could be said however to give you 3x1 antenna diversity, even if the phones are fully stationary, e.g. on desks. This compensates. From personal experience measuring this, people moving even slightly may cause completely new multipath fading effects, even with phones on desks but especially if the phones are are in their pockets. This gives interesting opportunities, if you have enough samples, to filter RSSI looking for peaks and and not medians or averages, to compensate for both a) the possible LoS blocking (more accurately, dampening) by the phone-adjacent human body/bodies if phones are in pockets (pants front/back or shirt), and b) the inherent unevenness of the directional field of the antenna, which is often large in a phone, much more so than in statioary devices that are usually tested. Typically the phone Bluetooth/Wifi antenna is a single ceramic antenna on the edge of one of the phone PCBs, acting against a near-by ground plane on the PCB. I believe the middle of the bottom side of the phone is the most popular position; if you know what these antennas look like, you can look at pictures posted on the web by tear-down enthusiasts, to locate the antenna for a particular phone model. I have seen some speculation on whether tx/rx adjustment factors for a particular phone model vary even between different serial-number devices of the model, but from my experience, cross-serial-number variation should be minor, less than 3 decibels or so. If cross-serial-number measurements are done without a test stand in an anechoic chamber, I expect that noise from the factors described above might easily be mistaken for much a larger cross-serial-number variation. All the above suggests that you need to have test subjects role-play chatting together standing, or sitting at an office table, (or an adjacent table in a restaurant setting), for time periods of several minutes, not tens of seconds, if you are looking to establish best-case estimates. And your need to test all 4 possible orientations of a phone in a pocket. I made some comments on channel saturation in #170. [May 1: updated to add: It just occurred to me that one might be able to do filtering that first uses the correlation or non-correlation of RSSI values from different social channels as a detector to find out if you have a dominant line of sight path between the two antennas, or whether line of sight is blocked. This yes/no bit could then be used to select one of two different filters tuned for that particular case, which would improve overall accuracy. This is fairly speculative, but worth a try.] |
@gbounch I'm still asking the people about this issue, but I didn't received a answer yet. until then I'm not allowed to share, but I'll keep you updated about this. Nevertheless I could share some model parameters of our linear regression model (it's just a 3-dimensional vector and a bias term since we observed that this is already enough in case of so much noise). Anyway, I'm interested in your experiments you are going to do and I could help you in analyzing the data. Maybe togehter in a telco with @kholtman and @gbounch ? |
unfortunately I don't know about, but I'm pretty sure that they had some freedom in direction (at least from the signal I would expect this issue). To be sure I could ask some people for the video recordings made while the experiments in order to reverse engineer this issue.
The same experiment was done for four different stopping-times, i.e. 2,4,6 and 10 minutes.
Depending on the experimental setup (2,4,6 or 10 minutes of stopping-time) we recorded peer-to-peer-bluetooth-connections up to 30-45 minutes (in case of 10 minutes stopping-time). But I can deliver more precise statistics if needed?
The setup was duplicated five times, where three were indoor (conference room with concrete floor) and two outdoor (probably concrete floor too, because they needed to fix the markings on the floor). Please see #235 for a summary-plot of one day of experiment.
@kholtman you are far more experienced in this topic than me, because I'm just a computer scientist (for data science and machine learning in general, no experience with these kind of measurements). But we thought also about the same issues, but didn't investigated deeper yet. For this we need more experiments.
I agree on that, this is why we use the "maximum" besides "length" (i.e. the number of beacons received before or after resampling) and "mean" as input-features to our linear regresion model risk-estimation.
We didn't looked as cross-serial-number variation but instead on cross-devices-variation. There we observed major deviations (up to 10-20 db). For this we computed calibrations for each combination of devices, which is mainly an additive term to adjust for the inter-device-differences.
Yes, you're right, we should thing about all this scenarios. Is the data from the experiments with the swiss army already accessible? I think they have done already quite cool experiments. Does anybody know more about this? |
@helme You write
I could understand their reluctance here: publishing an open data set requires a lot of time and effort to document experimental conditions (e.g. experimental details I was asking about above), and this time cannot be spent on other pending work. In software project management terms. you have have a Brooks's law problem. That being said, I want to encourage you to share my radio technology expert post above with the RF specialists you have been working with -- I feel that this may be useful to them if they are planning a setup for additional experiments. |
@kholtman indeed I have Brooks's law problem. Unfortunately, due to this total mess in the last two weeks, I stopped working on this topic and therefore I don't know which RF specialists are currently working on this topic. According to @gannimo DP3T will also release their data soon. |
I’m very out of my depth here but I’ve been trying to do some research for a project and came across github. Does anybody think this tech could be part of a solution to your problem? https://wyldnetworks.com/wyld-mesh-1-0 |
@helme your paper looks very interesting - maybe we would be able to estimate risk scores accurately even if distance measurement at single time point is not accurate. I'd also be interested in raw data, in a meantime it'd be great if you could share your model parameters! I've done some experiments with RSSI measurements and distance estimation based on a way of wearing the phone, indeed human body blocks it quite well and wearing it in back pocket (with receiver in front) results in significant distance measurement errors (true distance ~1m, measured distance >10m). But perhaps it averages out over relevant contact period. Recording of the experiment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAi24ctpyZQ It got me thinking though about relatively stationary but close situations, like e.g. public transport where two people might sit next to each other with relatively small movement, with a lot of body blocking the signal depending on where they wear their phones. Perhaps we could vary RSSI threshold with number of devices detected nearby - more devices would mean weaker signal strength required for "contact event". |
@kbobrowski you can find the same assessment here: the shadowing effect due to a body is of 20dB, which amounts to a factor of 10 in measuring distance. |
@pdehaye thanks, interesting link! |
@peterboncz @KAepora, @zukunft: reduce false positives (referencing one of the earlier comments,
May I suggest a relatively simple solution to reduce false positives, see "Use TOTP (RFC-6238) to generate EphIDs from daily Changing SK(t)" (#303): |
Hi all, I just wanted to share this announcement regarding the too-close for too-long (TC4TL) detection challenge that NIST is organizing in collaboration with the MIT PACT consortium. Please feel free to forward this to anyone that you think might be interested in participating in the challenge: We are pleased to announce that, in collaboration with the MIT PACT consortium (https://pact.mit.edu), we will be organizing a pilot too-close-for-too-long (TC4TL) event detection challenge. For more information please visit: Evaluation Plan Registration Keywords: Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE), Distance Estimation, Exposure Notification, Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU), Motion Sensor, Proximity Detection, Ranging |
I'm very surprised that I couldn't find an existing issue for this and it's most likely that it's my fault (I checked through all open issues twice), so please do close this issue if it's a duplicate or if it's already resolved.
My main concern with DP-3T currently is not a privacy/security one but actually regarding the harsh physical limitations of the Bluetooth LE communication channel. Is it really sufficient for determining actual contact events?
Consider for example: I drive around and stop at the traffic light next to someone in their own car who's infected. Thanks to how EphID exchange works over Bluetooth LE, now I've "been in contact" and our devices have exchanged EphIDs, despite neither of us having left their car.
Many such examples can be imagined.
My concern is that this would lead to such a large number of false contact events that it would bring down the usefulness of DP-3T almost completely, despite it not being a blight from a privacy or security standpoint.
What existing measures are being considered to mitigate this class of problems?
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