Segmentation of Valley Bottom Suggestions & Observatons #414
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The goal of this discussion is to find agreement among the @Riverscapes/developers on how we move forward with segmentation, centerlines and topology. I am consolidating the plethora of duplicative tickets and articulation of this need to here (closing those issues). I don't care if we stick with the proposal, but we need to move past these repeating discussions and get some actionable tickets and try some things. In my review of VBET, I see things actually looking pretty positive (not perfect). I can live with imperfection in solutions from imperfect national datasets. Even in what we are already doing, VBET looks good at over 80% of the riverscape network! Let's build off that. BackgroundCan skip ahead to actions proposed as "Answers" below, but this is where we consolidate what has been discussed and proposed. Segmentation Issues
Related Metric Issues
Related Valley Bottom "Centerline" or "Riverscape Network" Topology Issues
@KellyMWhitehead highlights in these tickets "failure" of running centerlines from these segments. The segmentation and centerline calculations are computationally expensive.
On how to actually do Centerlines:
The Problems @philipbaileynar Posed & Some "Responses"From #17 and prior to more thorough interrogation of what @KellyMWhitehead implemented for initial segmentation based on stream order and NHD attributes, these are legit questions that @philipbaileynar posed:
So, we don't concern ourselves with the valley (yet) in VBET. Just the valley bottom. It is really hard for me to know for sure without better context of hillshade, but just based on flowline geometry, below is my best guess at answers to your question from that screen shot @philipbaileynar :
I think we have a default, coarse segmentation in VBET, and segmentation is something that is very user-driven in Riverscapes Studio. I think I have articulated that now in #389 and #390. Agreed @philipbaileynar?
Absolutely! Centerlines are fundamental. See above on centerline issues and lets focus our strategy there in #382.
A tributary is a smaller (drainage area and flow), typically steeper, valley bottom or stream(s) that join a larger, flatter "mainstem". With channel networks we have to be careful to differentiate three types of confluences ():
Tributary channels are pretty easy to differentiate from mainstems as before they reach their "alluvial fans" or terminus, they are generally flowing at more perpendicular orientations into the trunk valley or valley bottom. Tributary channels can sometimes become distributary channels across their fans (more difluences than confluences) and frequently avulse across fans. When they join the mainstem channel(s), their orientation really depends on whether or not they are
We need to differentiate tributary channels (from NHD) from tributary valleys. This helps us get at "who's valley bottom is it"? I suggest that we use the stream-order stuff @KellyMWhitehead is using right now to give us our "transform zones" as some assistance in the answer to this. Another way of saying this is
No. junction types for confluences above defined. Other junctions include diffluences. We are only interested in tributary valley bottom junctions for our purposes here.
So in the figure below I label all the tributary confluences with blue circles (n=22) and label stream order with numbers. The question of how many valley bottoms (implied segments) could be viewed as as a stream order question. If we did so, we might follow (topologically) downstream on the valley bottom network and just stay as one valley bottom segment as long as stream order does not change. Whenever stream order changes, you end up with a new segment. I think this is roughly what @KellyMWhitehead is already doing. Essentially:
By this accounting, in the figure above:
So @philipbaileynar in that example there are 39 valley bottom segments, in if you split at all junctions would be roughly 50 segments. This is basically the difference between Strahler (what we're proposing) and Shreve Stream Order: The reason I like Strahler better for now is it avoids mainstem rivers, which are characterized by lots of smaller inputs, getting tweaked whenever a minor tributary feeds in. This will help us for River Styling at a more appropriate scale. If a user zooms into "their" riverscape and wants to split, let them. But we don't need to for reporting of metrics. That all sounds nice, like you say @philipbaileynar for a simpler dendritic network. So how does this work when we get downstream. I will attempt to tackle that in my suggestions below. However, the above does help us out with 80 to 90% of the network, so lets celebrate that. It is the 5th order and higher wear stuff goes pear shaped.
Difficult yes... impossible no. I think the key is to isolate user splitting and subjectivity of segmentation to Riverscapes Studio, and just focus on broad brushed segments out of default VBET. Questions to be addressed in this discussion
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Replies: 4 comments 4 replies
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Based largely on observations from our test St. Vrain VBET for HUC 10190005 and in part from St Mary's Upper Humboldt VBET for HUC 16040101 1. What parts of existing segmentation are working well?In the 15 minute video below I pan around the VBET results and basically come to the conclusion that 90-95% of the network is working well. In the headwaters and more classic tributaries it is doing really well. Some of the issues raised:
2. What parts of existing segmentation are falling apart?In the video below we highlight the bigger valley bottoms where the segmentation falls apart. For the most part, this is where:
3. What alternatives and ideas are there for improving the parts where we're struggling?Idea'r 1 - Just allow in Riverscapes Studio (QRiS or Web) user to Clean UpAs long as we can calculate the metrics we want and re-derive centerlines, if the user can modify geometry by simply unioning adjoining valley bottom segments, we can save ourselves a ton of time and headaches. This is of course an order-of-operations and chain of custody housekeeping cluster... but that's what Riverscapes Studio is. All punted over to a myVBET project. Idea'r 2 - Take advantage of what we know about AnabranchesMany of the places we struggle are places where we're dealing with anastomosing and braiding anabranches. It seems like we know this from NHD attributes (though maybe we're not preserving them through into RS-Context → Channel Area → VBET). What if we used this information and the identification of "lateral" to "lateral" intersections (as opposed to "upstream trib" to "lateral" intersections. Where such overlaps exist, union the geometries back together? Idea'r 3 - Take advantage of Stream Order and Adjoin "lateral" or "parallel" segmentsWe do see that in general, the only problems are happening on higher stream order stuff. We can use our In the video below I speculate about using stream order to help us out. 4. What are our priorities for trying these ideas out?@philipbaileynar, @MattReimer and @KellyMWhitehead that's in your court? |
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Hi @joewheaton and @philipbaileynar In this gist I lay out some of the thoughts we had about segmenting using NHD attributes, ecoregions, and level paths. @joewheaton do you want me to just copy it into this discussion? I will be updating with more examples on the process we laid out at the end. |
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SegmentationSome thoughts on a tiered process with some examples. This would be using ChannelArea geometries as our main geometry, and then tying the valley bottom segment to it. This is because the ChannelArea polygons have NHD+ data tied to them. The main examples will be from the Alarka Creek- Little Tennessee basin in North Carolina. Process1. Break out any
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This is further discussed on the new discussion board #564 |
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This is further discussed on the new discussion board #564