Shapes of retouch module are not in the mask manager module

[ruudsieb]

Darktable 5.2.1
Duplicate of #10336

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.
Reuse of masks over all modules should be possible to increase usability. Create a mask in module A, reuse the same mask in module B. Or create a copy of the original mask and reuse it in module B.

My use case (when I stumbled upon this): I added a fill color mask in the retouch module and wanted to add grain to the same area to let it blend in better. I had to redraw the mask in the grain module. Reusing a mask via the maskmanager would've been much easier.
It is not transparent for the user why some masks are in the mask manager and other aren't.

Describe the solution you'd like
Make all masks available in the mask manager to make mask usage uniform in the application.

Alternatives
?

The comment of @TurboGit was

That's expected. The forms in Retouch module (and it was also the case for the now deprecated spot removal) are not part of the mask manager. It is also the case for the Liquify module BTW (even if more comprehensible as very different visually).

Expected by whom? The developer, or the end-user?

[wpferguson]

The shapes in the retouch module and the liquify module are not masks, they are selections. They are not in the mask manager, because they are not masks.

[leavens]

The shapes in the mask manager also use the same tools as making masks. It is disconcerting for a newbie like myself to not have them appear in the mask manager.

A very useful case for this change would be when one clones a shape and then wants to use the same shape to do healing (to cover the imperfections of the clone).

[wpferguson]

Expected by whom? The developer, or the end-user?

The ones that ran into a problem and read the manual...

clones a shape and then wants to use the same shape to do healing

Wouldn't you use the heal tool and a brush and work on the edges?

---

A view of why this might not be a good idea

I retouch a portrait of a teenager with lots of acne. I use the heal tool and various sizes and clean up their face. If each use of the tool creates a shape in the mask manager, you could/would easily hove more than 100 shapes in the mask manager.

How are you going to pick the correct one?

If you used lequify or retouch it would essentially render the mask manager useless.

[TurboGit]

The shapes in the mask manager also use the same tools as making masks. It is disconcerting for a newbie like myself to not have them appear in the mask manager.

And if they were in mask manager you won't be disconcerted if you cannot use the boolean operator? Again as @wpferguson said those are selection not mask.

[ruudsieb]

Isn't a mask a way to select pixels which are going to be edited? So, isn't a mask a special selection?
I don't think this is ever going to be changed, so going to spend energy in photo editing using Darktable instead of arguing here.

The Darktable GUI is using "shape" not selection or mask, which add another level of abstraction, maybe better even.

[MStraeten]

Isn't a mask a way to select pixels which are going to be edited? So, isn't a mask a special selection?

This is not a matter of linguistic hair-splitting, but rather a technical detail: a mask in darktable and a selection in darktable are different technical objects. Being precise with terminology helps understanding differences ...
Even shape is just a descriptive word for a geometric structure you can use to define a drawn mask as well as you can use to define a selection.

[ruudsieb]

a mask in darktable and a selection in darktable are different technical objects

I understand. Was just wondering if there is no generalization relationship between the 'classes' selection and mask since they fulfill the same purpose in the end.

[leavens]

@wpferguson said:

Wouldn't you use the heal tool and a brush and work on the edges?

I have been avoiding using the brush tool in darktable because it seems to cause more slowdowns and not be very responsive. But perhaps I'm not remembering my experience with that well.

Overall I agree with @ruudsieb . If one uses both masks and selections for the same purpose, then it would be good to unify these for users. One of the great things about darktable is that one can reuse masks in interesting ways. I always wish the same were true of selections. Perhaps if the user had the option to export a combined mask and selection as a raster mask, then that would make everyone happy?

[wpferguson]

both masks and selections for the same purpose

They are not the same. They don't use the same code and they don't do the same things. It's like saying apples and oranges are the same because they are both round.