From 850538d08cd5cfb5d5dbae79bc4ff1e77eab8e16 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Gregg Kellogg Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:09:05 -0700 Subject: [PATCH] Minutes for 2024-07-10. --- 2024-07-10/index.html | 259 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 2024-07-10/irc.log | 177 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ index.html | 12 +- scribe-tool/people.json | 2 +- 4 files changed, 448 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) create mode 100644 2024-07-10/index.html create mode 100644 2024-07-10/irc.log diff --git a/2024-07-10/index.html b/2024-07-10/index.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000..e21bcd1 --- /dev/null +++ b/2024-07-10/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,259 @@ + + + + + + + + + + JSON-LD Community Group + + + + +
+

The W3C JSON-LD Community Group

+

Go Back

+ +
+

W3C Logo

JSON-LD CG

+

Minutes for 2024-07-10

+
+
+
Present
Gregg Kellogg, Benjamin Young, Ted Thibodeau Jr., Pierre-Antoine Champin, David I. Lehn, Niklas Lindström, Anatoly Scherbakov
+
Chair(s)
Gregg Kellogg
+
Scribe(s)
Gregg Kellogg
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Agenda
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/08563546-30fd-497a-ac16-77f96e96e8c0/20240710T120000/
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Topics
  1. Announcements and Introductions
  2. CBOR-LD
  3. YAML-LD
  4. CBOR-LD
  5. JSON-LD Issue Discussion
  6. Next call
Resolutions
  1. update tests for flatten to assume extractAllScripts defaults to false. Update toRdf() API to set default for extractAllScripts to true.
  2. No change to current behavior. Document issues in JSON-LD and YAML-LD
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+
Gregg Kellogg:
+
Gregg Kellogg is scribing.
+

+Topic: Announcements and Introductions +

+

+Topic: CBOR-LD +

+
David I. Lehn: We haven't worked on the spec too much, but are working on our implementation. We need to find time to update the spec.
+
David I. Lehn: We're moving some things forward and have a PR pending.
+
... Needs IANA registration.
+
Gregg Kellogg: Probably a WG item; needs to be in the spec.
+
David I. Lehn: We have other IDs, not yet registered, that need to go in.
+
... Part of the binary format.
+ +
https://github.com/json-ld/cbor-ld-spec/pull/28 -> Pull Request 28 Add support for different CBOR tags to be used for CBOR-LD to identify required application context maps. (by wes-smith)
+
Gregg Kellogg: Do we need to think about moving registries into the w3c github project.
+
Gregg Kellogg: This is an issue for the WG to take up.
+
... Both YAML-LD and CBOR-LD should move to the w3c space.
+
... Something for the WG to take up.
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David I. Lehn: Doesn't really matter where it is as a practical matter.
+

+Topic: YAML-LD +

+
Anatoly Scherbakov: I created an issue on JSON-LD to call on a better definition on JSON serialization.
+
... Calling attention to the group.
+
... I also implemented more tests for YAML-LD, including YAML-LD contexts.
+
... I'd like to ask dlehn on what the plans are for PyLd? Is it actively developed? What are the next steps?
+
David I. Lehn: This is an issue of not having enough time for all the things we're doing.
+
... We'd like to make it easier for people to assist, but haven't figured out the time.
+
... We're seeing other pressure to update it.
+
... For example, the safe mode proposal that we feel is important.
+
... Needs an issue for behavior.
+
... Our JavaScript code is probably too involved.
+
Gregg Kellogg: Can you create a tracking issue in json-ld-api?
+
David I. Lehn: There are some test suite cases that need to be fixed for this.
+
... The Python and JavaScript versions have diverged.
+
Ted Thibodeau Jr.: Don't think you need to put in everything. Some words to trigger your memory are sufficient.
+
Benjamin Young: We've been working with the active py community who depends on PyLd.
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... We having a growing community of interest, which will make it more of a priority to address.
+
... It impacts Verifiable Credentials implementations.
+

+Topic: CBOR-LD +

+ +
David I. Lehn: While I was looking into things, I found this paper which seems pertinent.
+
... Probalby worth talking with them.
+
Gregg Kellogg: The WG should invite them to participate.
+
Ted Thibodeau Jr.: Whoever contacts the CBL authors, they should be pointed to the Web Of Things CG and WG.
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Ted Thibodeau Jr.: WoT CG — https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/wot/
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Ted Thibodeau Jr.: WoT WG — https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/wot/
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+Topic: JSON-LD Issue Discussion +

+

+Subtopic: Status of charter update +

+ +
Benjamin Young: No progress. I had posted an issue on the charter repo.
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Pierre-Antoine Champin: I did some changes to the charter to address pending issues. (bigblue hat, please review).
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... In my view, when we solve this pending PR we can move forward with the charter.
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Benjamin Young: The WoT WG is listed, but not the CG.
+
... Please check for other groups that should be listed.
+ +

+Subtopic: issue w3c/json-ld-api#603 +

+
https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/603 -> Issue 603 toRdf() and flatten() API require extractAllScripts to default to true (by gkellogg) [spec:enhancement] [needs discussion] [ErratumRaised]
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Anatoly Scherbakov: Dlehn I wouldn't like to distract everyone as this is probably off-topic, but the issue I am facing now with python-yaml-ld is that I am redoing a lot of stuff that pyld already is doing. Basically, pyld already implements everything that's needed except a special DocumentLoader. So ideally, it feels like there shouldn't be a separate library for
+
Anatoly Scherbakov: YAML-LD at all, it should be just a feature of pyld. But in addition to that I would like to see improvements like pytest-based testing framework and better mypy/typing support. So I am still working on this as a separate implementation but it, kind of, feels wrong.
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Gregg Kellogg: Probably need to update the API to default to true, but unfortunate.
+
Pierre-Antoine Champin: Do we have text which is inconsistent with tests?
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Pierre-Antoine Champin: Sounds good to me
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Gregg Kellogg: My thought is to change API for toRDF but not flatten.
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Ted Thibodeau Jr.: I think tests are editable, if incorrect.
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... We should fix the test suite, if its wrong.
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... Implementations may need to be changed, but this should have been reported as a bug.
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Pierre-Antoine Champin: That's what we have in rdf-canon: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-canon/spec/#h-note-3
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PROPOSAL: update tests for flatten to assume extractAllScripts defaults to false. Update toRdf() API to set default for extractAllScripts to true.
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Gregg Kellogg: +1
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Anatoly Scherbakov: +1
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Ted Thibodeau Jr.: +1
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Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1
+
Niklas Lindström: +0 (Haven't thought it through fully)
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David I. Lehn: +0
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Niklas Lindström: Probably makes sense; so +ITY ;)
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+RESOLUTION: update tests for flatten to assume extractAllScripts defaults to false. Update toRdf() API to set default for extractAllScripts to true. +
+

+Subtopic: issue w3c/json-ld-api#604 +

+
https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/604 -> Issue 604 Using flatten() on HTML input having a single script element with an object with `@graph` results in named graph (by gkellogg) [spec:enhancement] [needs discussion] [ErratumRaised]
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Gregg Kellogg: Use @included instead of @graph if this is a problem.
+
PROPOSAL: No change to current behavior. Document issues in JSON-LD and YAML-LD
+
Gregg Kellogg: +1
+
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1
+
Ted Thibodeau Jr.: +1
+
Benjamin Young: +1
+
David I. Lehn: +0
+
+RESOLUTION: No change to current behavior. Document issues in JSON-LD and YAML-LD +
+
Pierre-Antoine Champin: Looking at the issue, I realized that the Rust library for JSON-LD is not compliant. It does remove @graph using example input.
+
... We might be missing a test about this case. I haven't had a chance to check yet.
+
... I mostly copied the first JSON example which is just an array with an object using @context and @graph and nothing else.
+

+Subtopic: issue w3c/json-ld-api#584 +

+
https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/584 -> Issue 584 Unify document loading in Context Processing? (by helins) [spec:editorial] [ErratumRaised]
+
Gregg Kellogg: Perhaps a chance to DRY up the text.
+
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I'm hesitant to extract the common functionality, so maybe just go for consistency so as not to disrupt the flow of the document.
+
Anatoly Scherbakov: The issue about JSON Serialization: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/605
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https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/605 -> Issue 605 It is not clear enough what "JSON Serialization" is (by anatoly-scherbakov) [spec:editorial] [ErratumRaised]
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Gregg Kellogg: Perhaps extract the json serialization for responding to a content type request.
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Anatoly Scherbakov: We could specify a "serialize()" function to do this, if it takes a content type.
+
... The API can describe when to serialize.
+
... I wanted to be sure that we agree that an expand function should return a datastructure, and not a serialization.
+
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I misunderstood what you said before, and agree that we should fix the API definitions.
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Niklas Lindström: Also agree to fix, but "do less". :)
+
... I understand anatoly-scherbakov's concerns about how to define this, but also worry about what this could disrupt.
+

+Topic: Next call +

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Gregg Kellogg: Next meeting in two weeks is a WG meeting.
+
+ + \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/2024-07-10/irc.log b/2024-07-10/irc.log new file mode 100644 index 0000000..e7a128c --- /dev/null +++ b/2024-07-10/irc.log @@ -0,0 +1,177 @@ +15:53:38 RRSAgent has joined #json-ld +15:53:42 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/07/10-json-ld-irc +15:53:42 RRSAgent, make logs Public +15:53:43 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), gkellogg +15:53:51 meeting: JSON-LD CG +15:54:01 agend: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/08563546-30fd-497a-ac16-77f96e96e8c0/20240710T120000/ +15:54:12 chair: gkellogg +15:54:14 present+ +15:54:16 scribe+ +15:54:22 zakim, next item +15:54:22 I see nothing on the agenda +15:54:35 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/08563546-30fd-497a-ac16-77f96e96e8c0/20240710T120000/ +15:54:36 clear agenda +15:54:36 agenda+ Announcements and Introductions +15:54:36 agenda+ YAML-LD +15:54:36 agenda+ CBOR-LD +15:54:36 agenda+ JSON-LD Issue Discussion +15:54:38 agenda+ Open Discussion +15:54:41 agenda+ Next call +15:54:44 zakim, next item +15:54:44 agendum 1 -- Announcements and Introductions -- taken up [from agendabot] +15:56:11 anatoly-scherbakov has joined #json-ld +15:58:26 gkellogg_ has joined #json-ld +16:00:21 present+ +16:01:45 zakim, who's here? +16:01:45 Present: gkellogg, bigbluehat +16:01:47 On IRC I see gkellogg_, anatoly-scherbakov, RRSAgent, Zakim, gkellogg, bigbluehat, TallTed, dlehn, puck, hadleybeeman, raboof_, csarven, Tpt, Teukka, cm, sknebel, agendabot, gb, +16:01:47 ... pchampin, dlongley +16:02:29 niklasl has joined #json-ld +16:02:32 present+ +16:03:17 present+ +16:03:21 zakim, close item +16:03:21 I don't understand 'close item', gkellogg_ +16:03:23 present+ +16:03:27 zakim, close item 1 +16:03:27 agendum 1, Announcements and Introductions, closed +16:03:28 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is +16:03:28 2. YAML-LD [from agendabot] +16:03:32 zakim, next item +16:03:50 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is +16:03:50 3. CBOR-LD [from agendabot] +16:03:59 zakim, next item +16:03:59 agendum 3 -- CBOR-LD -- taken up [from agendabot] +16:04:01 q+ +16:04:02 present+ +16:04:38 dlehn: We haven't worked on the spec too much, but are working on our implementation. We need to find time to update the spec. +16:04:45 ack dlehn +16:04:58 s|agend: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/08563546-30fd-497a-ac16-77f96e96e8c0/20240710T120000/|| +16:05:15 dlehn: We're moving some things forward and have a PR pending. +16:05:28 ... Needs IANA registration. +16:06:18 gkellogg: probably a WG item; needs to be in the spec. +16:06:32 dlehn: We have other IDs, not yet registered, that need to go in. +16:06:40 anatoly-scherbakov has joined #json-ld +16:06:53 present+ +16:07:21 ... Part of the binary format. +16:07:43 https://github.com/json-ld/cbor-ld-spec/pull/28 +16:07:43 https://github.com/json-ld/cbor-ld-spec/pull/28 -> Pull Request 28 Add support for different CBOR tags to be used for CBOR-LD to identify required application context maps. (by wes-smith) +16:08:33 gkellogg: do we need to think about moving registries into the w3c github project. +16:09:10 gkellogg: this is an issue for the WG to take up. +16:10:45 ... Both YAML-LD and CBOR-LD should move to the w3c space. +16:11:52 ... Something for the WG to take up. +16:12:11 dlehn: Doesn't really matter where it is as a practical matter. +16:14:32 topic: YAML-LD +16:15:17 zakim, who's here? +16:15:17 Present: gkellogg, bigbluehat, TallTed, pchampin, dlehn, niklasl, anatoly-scherbakov +16:15:18 On IRC I see niklasl, gkellogg_, RRSAgent, Zakim, bigbluehat, TallTed, dlehn, puck, hadleybeeman, raboof_, csarven, Tpt, Teukka, cm, sknebel, agendabot, gb, pchampin, dlongley +16:15:28 q? +16:15:55 anatoly-scherbakov: I created an issue on JSON-LD to call on a better definition on JSON serialization. +16:16:05 ... Calling attention to the group. +16:16:31 ... I also implemented more tests for YAML-LD, including YAML-LD contexts. +16:16:34 q+ to mention a CBOR-LD paper (after current topic) +16:17:30 ... I'd like to ask dlehn on what the plans are for PyLd? Is it actively developed? What are the next steps? +16:17:44 q+ to say a bit more about PyLD +16:17:49 dlehn: This is an issue of not having enough time for all the things we're doing. +16:18:17 ... We'd like to make it easier for people to assist, but haven't figured out the time. +16:18:38 ... We're seeing other pressure to update it. +16:18:56 ... For example, the safe mode proposal that we feel is important. +16:20:19 ... Needs an issue for behavior. +16:20:49 ... Our JavaScript code is probably too involved. +16:21:36 gkellogg: can you create a tracking issue in json-ld-api? +16:23:07 dlehn: There are some test suite cases that need to be fixed for this. +16:23:22 ... The Python and JavaScript versions have diverged. +16:23:50 TallTed: Don't think you need to put in everything. Some words to trigger your memory are sufficient. +16:23:56 ack bigbluehat +16:23:56 bigbluehat, you wanted to say a bit more about PyLD +16:24:31 bigbluehat: We've been working with the active py community who depends on PyLd. +16:24:54 ... We having a growing community of interest, which will make it more of a priority to address. +16:25:20 ... It impacts Verifiable Credentials implementations. +16:25:42 topic: CBOR-LD +16:25:44 ack dlehn +16:25:44 dlehn, you wanted to mention a CBOR-LD paper (after current topic) +16:26:02 https://arxiv.org/abs/2407.04398 +16:26:20 dlehn: While I was looking into things, I found this paper which seems pertinent. +16:27:02 ... Probalby worth talking with them. +16:27:39 gkellogg: the WG should invite them to participate. +16:27:50 q? +16:28:41 TallTed: Whoever contacts the CBL authors, they should be pointed to the Web Of Things CG and WG. +16:29:32 WoT CG — https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/wot/ +16:29:32 WoT WG — https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/wot/ +16:28:05 zakim, next item +16:28:05 agendum 4 -- JSON-LD Issue Discussion -- taken up [from agendabot] +16:30:04 subtopic: Status of charter update +16:30:05 q+ +16:30:22 https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld-wg-charter/issues +16:30:28 bigbluehat: No progress. I had posted an issue on the charter repo. +16:30:34 ack pchampin +16:31:05 pchampin: I did some changes to the charter to address pending issues. (bigblue hat, please review). +16:31:31 q+ +16:31:32 ... In my view, when we solve this pending PR we can move forward with the charter. +16:31:32 anatoly-scherbakov has joined #json-ld +16:31:36 present+ +16:31:54 bigbluehat: The WoT WG is listed, but not the CG. +16:32:15 ... Please check for other groups that should be listed. +16:32:46 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/84/views/1 +16:33:07 subtopic: issue w3c/json-ld-api#603 +16:33:08 https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/603 -> Issue 603 toRdf() and flatten() API require extractAllScripts to default to true (by gkellogg) [spec:enhancement] [needs discussion] [ErratumRaised] +16:34:28 dlehn I wouldn't like to distract everyone as this is probably off-topic, but the issue I am facing now with python-yaml-ld is that I am redoing a lot of stuff that pyld already is doing. Basically, pyld already implements everything that's needed except a special DocumentLoader. So ideally, it feels like there shouldn't be a separate library for +16:34:28 YAML-LD at all, it should be just a feature of pyld. But in addition to that I would like to see improvements like pytest-based testing framework and better mypy/typing support. So I am still working on this as a separate implementation but it, kind of, feels wrong. +16:34:40 gkellogg: probably need to update the API to default to true, but unfortunate. +16:34:49 q+ +16:34:54 ack pchampin +16:34:56 q- +16:35:17 pchampin: Do we have text which is inconsistent with tests> +16:35:22 s/tests>/tests?/ +16:37:45 sounds good to me +16:39:11 gkellogg: my thought is to change API for toRDF but not flatten. +16:39:27 TallTed: I think tests are editable, if incorrect. +16:40:25 ... We should fix the test suite, if its wrong. +16:40:59 ... Implementations may need to be changed, but this should have been reported as a bug. +16:41:01 that's what we have in rdf-canon: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-canon/spec/#h-note-3 +16:41:48 proposal: update tests for flatten to assume extractAllScripts defaults to false. Update toRdf() API to set default for extractAllScripts to true. +16:42:15 +1 +16:42:17 +1 +16:42:20 +1 +16:42:26 +1 +16:42:36 +0 (haven't thought it through fully) +16:42:54 +0 +16:43:02 Probably makes sense; so +ITY ;) +16:43:05 resolved: update tests for flatten to assume extractAllScripts defaults to false. Update toRdf() API to set default for extractAllScripts to true. +16:43:28 subtopic: issue w3c/json-ld-api#604 +16:43:28 https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/604 -> Issue 604 Using flatten() on HTML input having a single script element with an object with `@graph` results in named graph (by gkellogg) [spec:enhancement] [needs discussion] [ErratumRaised] +16:45:10 gkellogg: use @included instead of @graph if this is a problem. +16:45:32 proposal: No change to current behavior. Document issues in JSON-LD and YAML-LD +16:45:35 +1 +16:45:44 +1 +16:45:45 +1 +16:46:02 +1 +16:46:03 +0 +16:46:06 q+ +16:46:12 ack pchampin +16:46:30 resolved: No change to current behavior. Document issues in JSON-LD and YAML-LD +16:46:30 niklasl has joined #json-ld +16:47:12 pchampin: Looking at the issue, I realized that the Rust library for JSON-LD is not compliant. It does remove @graph using example input. +16:47:31 ... We might be missing a test about this case. I haven't had a chance to check yet. +16:48:43 ... I mostly copied the first JSON example which is just an array with an object using @context and @graph and nothing else. +16:49:37 anatoly-scherbakov has joined #json-ld +16:50:39 subtopic: issue w3c/json-ld-api#584 +16:50:40 https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/584 -> Issue 584 Unify document loading in Context Processing? (by helins) [spec:editorial] [ErratumRaised] +16:51:50 gkellogg: perhaps a chance to DRY up the text. +16:52:52 pchampin: I'm hesitant to extract the common functionality, so maybe just go for consistency so as not to disrupt the flow of the document. +16:53:55 The issue about JSON Serialization: https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/605 +16:53:55 https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-api/issues/605 -> Issue 605 It is not clear enough what "JSON Serialization" is (by anatoly-scherbakov) [spec:editorial] [ErratumRaised] +16:55:15 gkellogg: perhaps extract the json serialization for responding to a content type request. +16:56:14 q+ +16:56:19 ack anatoly-scherbakov +16:57:00 anatoly-scherbakov: We could specify a "serialize()" function to do this, if it takes a content type. +16:58:10 q+ +16:58:14 ... The API can describe when to serialize. +16:58:52 ... I wanted to be sure that we agree that an expand function should return a datastructure, and not a serialization. +17:00:03 pchampin: I misunderstood what you said before, and agree that we should fix the API definitions. +17:00:31 Also agree to fix, but "do less". :) +17:00:31 ... I understand anatoly-scherbakov's concerns about how to define this, but also worry about what this could disrupt. +17:01:18 topic: Next call +17:01:18 gkellogg: Next meeting in two weeks is a WG meeting. +17:01:24 zakim, end meeting +17:01:24 As of this point the attendees have been gkellogg, bigbluehat, TallTed, pchampin, dlehn, niklasl, anatoly-scherbakov +17:01:26 RRSAgent, please draft minutes diff --git a/index.html b/index.html index db95e6c..ce24c3d 100644 --- a/index.html +++ b/index.html @@ -119,7 +119,17 @@

The W3C JSON-LD Community Group

Go Back

-

W3C Logo

Joining Teleconferences

All JSON-LD teleconferences are open to the public. Anyone may join and participate in the discussion. All teleconferences are announced at least 24 hours in advance on the JSON-LD mailing list.

  • Meetings: generally every other week
  • Time: Every other Wednesday 1800 UTC, 9am San Francisco, 12pm Boston, 6pm Berlin
  • Where: Zoom (details in W3C calendar)
  • IRC: irc://irc.w3.org/#json-ld
  • Duration: 60 minutes

Make sure you have a good headset with a microphone as any background noise is distracting to others during the call. If there is excessive noise on your connection, you will be muted until you need to speak. Make sure you join the IRC channel as links and code examples are usually shared over the chat channel.

Minutes for meetings prior to the creation of the JSON-LD Working group may be found here.

Meeting for 2024-06-26

+

W3C Logo

Joining Teleconferences

All JSON-LD teleconferences are open to the public. Anyone may join and participate in the discussion. All teleconferences are announced at least 24 hours in advance on the JSON-LD mailing list.

  • Meetings: generally every other week
  • Time: Every other Wednesday 1800 UTC, 9am San Francisco, 12pm Boston, 6pm Berlin
  • Where: Zoom (details in W3C calendar)
  • IRC: irc://irc.w3.org/#json-ld
  • Duration: 60 minutes

Make sure you have a good headset with a microphone as any background noise is distracting to others during the call. If there is excessive noise on your connection, you will be muted until you need to speak. Make sure you join the IRC channel as links and code examples are usually shared over the chat channel.

Minutes for meetings prior to the creation of the JSON-LD Working group may be found here.

Meeting for 2024-07-10

+

Topics

    +
  1. YAML-LD
    2. +
  2. CBOR-LD
    3. +
  3. Next call
    4. +
+

Resolutions

    +
  1. update tests for flatten to assume extractAllScripts defaults to false. Update toRdf() API to set default for extractAllScripts to true.
    2. +
  2. No change to current behavior. Document issues in JSON-LD and YAML-LD
    3. +
+

Meeting for 2024-06-26

Resolutions

  1. the JSON-LD will adopt the rdf:JSON datatype as defined in https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/66 as the basis for work on JSON-LD 1.2.
diff --git a/scribe-tool/people.json b/scribe-tool/people.json index a528913..b747a70 100644 --- a/scribe-tool/people.json +++ b/scribe-tool/people.json @@ -29,7 +29,7 @@ }, "Gregg Kellogg": { "homepage": "http://greggkellogg.net/home/about/", - "alias": ["gkellogg", "gregg_kellogg"] + "alias": ["gkellogg", "gregg_kellogg", "gkellogg_"] }, "Laura Fowler": { "alias": [