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Meeting notes — MDN PAB video conference, March 14, 2018

Attendees: Ali Spivak (Mozilla), Dominique Hazael-Massieux (W3C), Chris Mills (Mozilla), Kadir Topal (Mozilla), Daniel Appelquist (Samsung), Erika Doyle Navara (Microsoft), Patrick Kettner (Microsoft), Meggin Kearney (Google), Robert Nyman (Google) + MDN team members: Florian Scholtz, Jean Yves Perrier, Jeremie Patonnier, Janet Swisher (all Mozilla).

Regrets: Rick Waldron

Logistics

  • Date/Time: Thursday, March 14th 2018, 8am pacific
  • Place: Video call

Agenda

  1. Meeting kick off & agenda review (5 minutes)
  2. Meet the MDN team! We’re all in Paris this week for a work week + Hack on MDN.
  3. Check in on action items from January meeting
  4. Do GitHub issues work for managing actions?
  5. Chrome DevTools browser compatibility extension.
  6. Finalize July meeting dates & location (10 minutes)
  7. Decided! July 31st and August 1, Seattle
  8. Other discussion items (see below)

Discussion Items

  • [Patrick] Discuss policy around contradictions in peer specs
  • [Dom] Exploring how to expose W3C-sanctioned best practices in MDN. Should we schedule a call with Chris to figure out the best way for us to propose a concrete action plan?
  • [Dom] Whether and how W3C specs can link from their head to the relevant MDN article(s). Would need to identify good-willing groups for an initial experiment). Also, could MDN help drive input to W3C specs redesign process? Who and how?
  • [Kadir] Developer needs: Is there research that can be shared about developer needs for the web platform?
  • [Kadir] compat data: Can we commit to updating compat data moving forward and for backfilling existing features?
  • [Dan] the Paris hack
  • [Dan] relationship with JS Foundation?
  • [Chris] “Start working group meetings to focus on “generic” PWA definition for MDN” — I’ve written some starter text to get us going on this, need some feedback from others in the group.

Meeting Notes

Consensus on keeping to use github issues. Ali will ddd missing issues from January + new action items from this meeting & follow up with PAB members on resolution.

About policy around contradictions in peer specs (specifically when to mark things obsolete/experimental). Noted that WHATWG/W3C relationship process likely to change in coming months, maybe MDN recognizes/notes there are differences. Maybe a way to mark that there is ongoing discussion about the approach for that item? Should set some guidelines for MDN to address. [Chris] take action to propose guidelines, share for review with MDN team & PAB, add real examples in practice. If not obsolete everywhere should have a controversial tag.

Exploring how to expose W3C-sanctioned best practices in MDN. Should we schedule a call with Chris to figure out the best way for us to propose a concrete action plan? Don’t want to take too much of Chris’ time, but it makes sense to discuss during Hack on MDN this weekend.

Whether and how W3C specs can link from their head to the relevant MDN article(s). Would need to identify good-willing groups for an initial experiment).

  • [Dom] Add github issues for this
  • Start with groups that want to do this, longer term discuss making this mandatory with larger W3C. Are there any groups we should reach out to? Can add in the github issue
  • Chris - MDN team can start opening PR’s on the specs with links to the MDN docs. Need to first approach 1-2 groups to get their buy in.
  • Would be helpful to have some “getting started” templates available for consistency or workflow for spec editors for help starting articles matching their specs. MDN team could use help doing this. [open a github issue]
  • Web Platform incubator group? Mostly Chrome? Is this the first visibility on explainers. What goes into explainers, more used because TAG asks for it before they do a review, and possible Chrome is requiring explainer before shipping. Would be good to have a better understanding of the longer trajectory.
  • Use MDN audience reach to get more web developer input into the specs. Chris and Kadir like the idea. Questions, how far would the scope of this go? Depends, TC39 can be confusing, examples can help with being able to understand.
  • Spec redesign process, W3C has asked university students to work on a redesign project for specs, running a series of interviews. Focusing on design more than content, would be very useful for MDN team to provide input. Dom will send link to the project to Chris, Chris will share with other MDN writers.

Developer needs: Is there research that can be shared about developer needs for the web platform?

  • Dom: Closing the gap with native, informal research and report
  • Listing existing articles, and surveys
  • Robert: We should leverage the reach of MDN. Could influence Google Product Managers. We’re currently winging it a lot, despite having a lot of data.
  • Kadir will start working group to figure out what data we want/need to collect from MDN users. Meggin suggested figuring out how to promote to users off MDN, and also partnership with framework providers [e.g. react] to get reach beyond web.
  • ⅓ of sites are on wordpress, we should reach out to them.

Commitment to updating compatibility data

  • Joe Medley has been doing this on the Google side, will be doing this in Paris also with other Google team members. /web articles, make sure the compat data from these articles is represented on MDN? Right now there is a disconnect between blazing new stuff and what goes in stable and on MDN. Joe is trying to fix, can discuss in Paris
  • Peter and Ada coming to Paris from Samsung, Peter has been doing updates. Trying to figure out how to make the process more automated (will get more details from Peter this weekend)
  • Microsoft has manual process, will be looking into automating in the remote hacking session Friday.

JS foundation

  • If we could get JS foundation to reference MDN docs by policy when creating dev docs within JS foundation projects that might be another win.

PWA definition working group - will discuss over the weekend in Paris with Ada, Pete and Patrick.

Action items [+assignee]

  • [Ali] get github account fixed, update issues from January & this meeting.
  • [Chris] schedule meeting w/ Dom exploring how to expose W3C-sanctioned best practices in MDN & set an action plan
  • [Kadir] Start working group on dev survey
  • [Ali] Speak to Kris Borchers about JS Foundation MDN cross-promotion and referencing MDN when creating docs.
  • [Chris] Propose guidelines/policy around contradictions in peer specs (specifically when to mark things obsolete/experimental), share for review with MDN team & PAB, add real examples in practice.
  • [Chris] discuss PWA definition working group this weekend in Paris with Ada, Pete and Patrick, follow up with PAB and wider interest group.
  • [Dom] Add github issues for MDN help drive input to W3C specs redesign process.
  • [Dom] Send link to the W3C redesign project interviews to Chris, Chris will share with other MDN writers.
  • [Dom] Add github issue for asking 1-2 W3C spec groups to link from the spec to the relevant MDN article(s). Needs PAB suggestions for relevant groups for an initial experiment.
  • [ali] Follow up with PAB members to plan July in-person meeting.
  • [Chris] Follow up with MDN team on creating "getting started" templates for spec editors to help start articles matching their specs. MDN team will need help from PAB members on this. Chris will discuss and follow up.

Next meeting: July 2018

  • In-person meeting, July 31st - August 1, 2018, in Seattle.