diff --git a/src/components/CallView/Grid/Grid.vue b/src/components/CallView/Grid/Grid.vue
index 22f7cda8abc..a47b5e63d19 100644
--- a/src/components/CallView/Grid/Grid.vue
+++ b/src/components/CallView/Grid/Grid.vue
@@ -513,10 +513,6 @@ export default {
 				return this.videos
 			}
 
-			if (!this.participantsInitialised) {
-				return []
-			}
-
 			const objectMap = {
 				modelsWithScreenshare: [],
 				modelsTempPromoted: [],
@@ -536,7 +532,7 @@ export default {
 					objectMap.modelsTempPromoted.push(model)
 				} else if (this.isModelWithVideo(model)) {
 					videoTilesMap.set(model.attributes.nextcloudSessionId, model)
-				} else if (this.isModelWithAudio(model)) {
+				} else if (this.participantsInitialised && this.isModelWithAudio(model)) {
 					audioTilesMap.set(model.attributes.nextcloudSessionId, model)
 				} else {
 					objectMap.modelsWithNoPermissions.push(model)
diff --git a/src/components/RightSidebar/Participants/ParticipantsTab.vue b/src/components/RightSidebar/Participants/ParticipantsTab.vue
index 4ad64ea0422..bdfd3206e06 100644
--- a/src/components/RightSidebar/Participants/ParticipantsTab.vue
+++ b/src/components/RightSidebar/Participants/ParticipantsTab.vue
@@ -219,10 +219,6 @@ export default {
 			return [CONVERSATION.TYPE.ONE_TO_ONE, CONVERSATION.TYPE.ONE_TO_ONE_FORMER].includes(this.conversation.type)
 		},
 
-		userId() {
-			return this.$store.getters.getUserId()
-		},
-
 		canAddPhones() {
 			const canModerateSipDialOut = hasTalkFeature(this.token, 'sip-support-dialout')
 				&& getTalkConfig(this.token, 'call', 'sip-enabled')
@@ -267,9 +263,10 @@ export default {
 
 	methods: {
 		t,
-		async updateUsers(usersList) {
-			const currentUser = usersList.flat().find((user) => user.userId === this.userId)
-			const currentParticipant = this.participants.find((user) => user.userId === this.userId)
+		async updateUsers([users]) {
+			const currentUser = users.find((user) => {
+				return user.userId ? user.userId === this.$store.getters.getUserId() : user.actorId === this.$store.getters.getActorId()
+			})
 			if (!currentUser) {
 				return
 			}
@@ -277,7 +274,10 @@ export default {
 			if (currentUser.participantPermissions !== this.conversation.permissions) {
 				await this.$store.dispatch('fetchConversation', { token: this.token })
 			}
-			if (currentUser.participantPermissions !== currentParticipant?.permissions) {
+
+			const currentParticipant = this.$store.getters.getParticipant(this.token, this.$store.getters.getAttendeeId())
+			if (currentParticipant && this.$store.getters.isModeratorOrUser
+				&& currentUser.participantPermissions !== currentParticipant?.permissions) {
 				await this.cancelableGetParticipants()
 			}
 		},
diff --git a/src/composables/useGetParticipants.js b/src/composables/useGetParticipants.js
index 2aa14be4c4b..f489e231cb5 100644
--- a/src/composables/useGetParticipants.js
+++ b/src/composables/useGetParticipants.js
@@ -89,7 +89,7 @@ export function useGetParticipants(isActive = ref(true), isTopBar = true) {
 	}
 
 	const onJoinedConversation = () => {
-		if (isOneToOneConversation.value) {
+		if (isOneToOneConversation.value || experimentalUpdateParticipants) {
 			cancelableGetParticipants()
 		} else {
 			nextTick(() => throttleUpdateParticipants())
@@ -119,36 +119,26 @@ export function useGetParticipants(isActive = ref(true), isTopBar = true) {
 		}
 
 		fetchingParticipants = true
-
-		// Cancel the parallel request queue to not fetch twice
-		clearTimeout(throttleFastUpdateTimeout)
-		throttleFastUpdateTimeout = null
-		clearTimeout(throttleSlowUpdateTimeout)
-		throttleSlowUpdateTimeout = null
-		clearTimeout(throttleLongUpdateTimeout)
-		throttleLongUpdateTimeout = null
+		cancelPendingUpdates()
 
 		await store.dispatch('fetchParticipants', { token: token.value })
 		fetchingParticipants = false
 	}
 
 	const throttleFastUpdate = () => {
-		if (throttleFastUpdateTimeout) {
-			return
+		if (!fetchingParticipants && !throttleFastUpdateTimeout) {
+			throttleFastUpdateTimeout = setTimeout(cancelableGetParticipants, 3_000)
 		}
-		throttleFastUpdateTimeout = setTimeout(cancelableGetParticipants, 3_000)
 	}
 	const throttleSlowUpdate = () => {
-		if (throttleSlowUpdateTimeout) {
-			return
+		if (!fetchingParticipants && !throttleSlowUpdateTimeout) {
+			throttleSlowUpdateTimeout = setTimeout(cancelableGetParticipants, 15_000)
 		}
-		throttleSlowUpdateTimeout = setTimeout(cancelableGetParticipants, 15_000)
 	}
 	const throttleLongUpdate = () => {
-		if (throttleLongUpdateTimeout) {
-			return
+		if (!fetchingParticipants && !throttleLongUpdateTimeout) {
+			throttleLongUpdateTimeout = setTimeout(cancelableGetParticipants, 60_000)
 		}
-		throttleLongUpdateTimeout = setTimeout(cancelableGetParticipants, 60_000)
 	}
 
 	onMounted(() => {
@@ -157,6 +147,10 @@ export function useGetParticipants(isActive = ref(true), isTopBar = true) {
 		}
 	})
 
+	watch(token, () => {
+		cancelPendingUpdates()
+	})
+
 	watch(isActive, (newValue) => {
 		if (newValue && pendingChanges) {
 			throttleUpdateParticipants()
@@ -164,11 +158,25 @@ export function useGetParticipants(isActive = ref(true), isTopBar = true) {
 	})
 
 	onBeforeUnmount(() => {
+		cancelPendingUpdates()
 		if (isTopBar) {
 			stopGetParticipants()
 		}
 	})
 
+	/**
+	 * Cancel scheduled participant list updates
+	 * Applies to all parallel queues to not fetch twice
+	 */
+	function cancelPendingUpdates() {
+		clearTimeout(throttleFastUpdateTimeout)
+		throttleFastUpdateTimeout = null
+		clearTimeout(throttleSlowUpdateTimeout)
+		throttleSlowUpdateTimeout = null
+		clearTimeout(throttleLongUpdateTimeout)
+		throttleLongUpdateTimeout = null
+	}
+
 	return {
 		cancelableGetParticipants,
 	}
diff --git a/src/store/conversationsStore.js b/src/store/conversationsStore.js
index 9fd954a8171..046b74d51c5 100644
--- a/src/store/conversationsStore.js
+++ b/src/store/conversationsStore.js
@@ -318,6 +318,7 @@ const actions = {
 				lastPing: conversation.lastPing,
 				sessionIds: [conversation.sessionId],
 				participantType: conversation.participantType,
+				permissions: conversation.permissions,
 				attendeeId: conversation.attendeeId,
 				actorType: conversation.actorType,
 				actorId: conversation.actorId, // FIXME check public share page handling
diff --git a/src/store/conversationsStore.spec.js b/src/store/conversationsStore.spec.js
index 95cef799dc9..226a4cfd4f9 100644
--- a/src/store/conversationsStore.spec.js
+++ b/src/store/conversationsStore.spec.js
@@ -104,6 +104,7 @@ describe('conversationsStore', () => {
 			attendeeId: 'attendee-id-1',
 			actorType: ATTENDEE.ACTOR_TYPE.USERS,
 			actorId: 'actor-id',
+			permissions: PARTICIPANT.PERMISSIONS.CUSTOM,
 			defaultPermissions: PARTICIPANT.PERMISSIONS.CUSTOM,
 			callPermissions: PARTICIPANT.PERMISSIONS.CUSTOM,
 			lastMessage: { ...previousLastMessage },
@@ -159,6 +160,7 @@ describe('conversationsStore', () => {
 					inCall: PARTICIPANT.CALL_FLAG.DISCONNECTED,
 					lastPing: 600,
 					participantType: PARTICIPANT.TYPE.USER,
+					permissions: PARTICIPANT.PERMISSIONS.CUSTOM,
 					sessionIds: [
 						'session-id-1',
 					],
@@ -191,6 +193,7 @@ describe('conversationsStore', () => {
 					inCall: PARTICIPANT.CALL_FLAG.DISCONNECTED,
 					lastPing: 600,
 					participantType: PARTICIPANT.TYPE.USER,
+					permissions: PARTICIPANT.PERMISSIONS.CUSTOM,
 					sessionIds: [
 						'session-id-1',
 					],