Feedback: User tags

[peppy]

We released the new "user tags" system last week in a relatively raw state, with the intention of building it out based on how the community wishes to see it grow. Feel free to leave your feedback and discuss the system here!

Please post one idea per comment thread to keep things organised.

[peppy]

Website doesn't show/respect threshold for tags "counting" (ppy/osu-web#12015)

In the client implementation tags change colour when they hit 10 votes, but this isn't conveyed on the beatmap info pages. We should probably hide tags which haven't hit this threshold from the beatmap pages (but still show at results so they can be upvoted easily).

The threshold system (and cutoff number) was an arbitrary decision, so feel free to discuss whether it feels too low / high / wrong.

[bdach]

addressed by #32579

[bdach]

will be resolved by ppy/osu-web#12047

[bdach]

resolved by ppy/osu-web#12042

[pajwoj]

Current tag data should be reworked for better usability.

In my opinion the tags should be significantly simplified or reworked to improve readability; I thought of a solution for this:

• Deprecate overly complex tags and retain simpler ones: tags like "song representation/difficulty spike" could be removed, while more intuitive tags like "tap/streams" or a basic "jump" tag (if it already exists, if not, then it should be created) could be kept; this way you get fewer details about the map, but it'd be way easier to classify most (which I think is the main challenge of this; putting tags on lots of maps, this way potentially some sort of bot could distinguish between e.g. streams and jumps and automatically tag most maps correctly) for both players and mappers.

Retaining the "sub-genre / slash" format for more detailed tagging would allow for more descriptors to be put on maps which equals more details, also no current data would have to be removed / changed, however it would be much harder to put those tags on maps, it would be harder to incorporate those in the search menu (unlike the option above, where it could just be a new row of search filters with only a few existing tags), and there would surely be misunderstandings / misclassifications with this system.

All in all I think the raw OMDB data has to be revised to allow a functioning, user-friendly tag system, usable and understandable for everyone, be it a beginner or someone very experienced.

[apollo-dw]

I would strongly encourage retaining the more complex tags like "difficulty spike" -- I absolutely saw them being used for discovery on OMDB side. It may seem like a lot at first, but I promise that with time it becomes digestible and very powerful.

Instead, focus should be placed on making the list of tags and their descriptions available in full somewhere (#32568 (comment)) so that people can slowly acclimatize to the selection of tags. Because I agree that right now it's probably unreadable, but I don't think that's because of the specific selection of tags.

[tovc]

Is there any reason that it needs to be a popout window? It seems like the current placement isn't exactly short of real-estate

[bdach]

I don't think there's any reason it needs to be one but the initial pitch was having it mirror the GitHub issue label popout thing. Not sure. Will require some experimenting.

I don't think a popout is bad as long as it's big enough. I've seen tags on some maps and they look pretty overwhelming already, so popout makes sense to me still, but I'm not ruling out some redesign of the entire control.

[tovc]

If the tagging window was further up the page and overlapping something, I think a popout would make sense, but as it is currently, it's below everything else and isn't overlapping anything

Again, this is getting into the scoring screen as a whole, but the dead space looks especially silly on ultrawide resolutions

[bdach]

#32640 intends to resolve this

[bdach]

Tag control is in a very hidden place

From #32534

The tag window is tucked away at the bottom of a screen that a lot of people don't know exists. I was screen sharing with a friend in discord the other day, and I opened the extend score information panel, and he said that was the first time he'd ever seen it. He's been playing lazer exclusively since he started playing ~3 years ago. That's maybe a topic for a future rework of the scoring screen, but putting the tags there, and only having them visible/accessible from there is just not good design

@peppy would like your opinion on this one, since the location was originally your suggestion I think

[peppy]

It will eventually be more exposed as the results screen design is updated, I think. It's fine for now.

Optimally, at the results screen I'd like there to be buttons for all actions that can be performed by the user, and assigning takes would be one of those actions.

[bdach]

Tags are not supported well in client

Not shown in beatmap set overlay, not shown in song select, no support for searching by them in song select.

Probably wise to resolve #32568 (comment) first to avoid redundant work

[bdach]

display on beatmap set overlay -> #32610

[bdach]

I'm kind of hesitating about digging up song select to add support for this what with the song select redesign looming, especially so that I recall something or other about @frenzibyte working on some flow to have online metadata displayed on song select which likely overlaps with showing user tags. cc @peppy for potential opinion-giving on the subject also I guess

[tovc]

Some 2b maps make achieving a C rank much harder than on regular maps

One example would be TheFatRat - Mayday (feat. Laura Brehm) (Voltaeyx). This map forces you to drop lots of slider ends, which results in much lower acc than on most other maps. This is ironic given that there's a specific tag for 2b

There should be a better way to qualify plays for tagging a map. Being above 60% of the average accuracy of the top 50 plays sounds good to me

[bdach]

somewhat duplicate of #32568 (comment)

also lazer generally is not very compatible with 2b right now so low priority in my eyes to a degree...

[tovc]

Somewhat, but it doesn't touch on initially achieving a C-rank. About half of the leaderboard is below a C-rank on that map

And yeah, I'm aware of lazer+2b. The client is actually a lot better for playing some 2b maps because it allows hitting object placements that would otherwise be impossible, but I do get that support is low priority. This seems like a reasonable enough thing to add tho

[tovc]

Mirror genre/langauge fields as beatmap tags

For future use, mainly. Would also allow adding genres beyond the 13 that the game has had for years

(and I want to tag atmospheric dnb maps as breakcore)

[peppy]

I'm not against this conceptually, but it is another case of using beatmap (difficulty) level tags system for beatmap (set) level assignments.

I think we'd want system level support for this (where certain tags are automatically applied to the full set when selected).

[tovc]

Allow creating beatmap collections exclusively from beatmap tags

More of a 'this would be nice' than a 'this is whats wrong with the current system'. I want to be able to, for example, create a beatmap collection with tags like reading/overlap reading and style/old-style revival, then have any maps that meet one or all of those tags added to that collection as my map library grows. Having language tags would also allow me to make a tap/streams language/metal collection

[bdach]

proper display on song select (#32568 (reply in thread)) probably a hard prerequisite here as well

[apollo-dw]

Show the full list of tags somewhere

On OMDB, we had a full list of tags available on a page for people to peruse. It presented itself in a tree format, it contained descriptions for each tag and it allowed users to click on the tag to search maps with the tag. I think this is useful for exploration as well as acclimatizing to the list of tags.

[AJT127]

this echoes what I wrote in a different thread and was going to repost here on request: "it would also be nice if they were added to the menu to be searched by clicking (like language and genre)"

it could be optional if you think that having it in that menu by default would be too cluttered. the slashes are also kinda meaningless right now as you can't see the rest of the things under a certain umbrella, and several of these terms are not things that someone would independently think is a category to search e.g. "avant-garde"

there was also an explanation for each tag on omdb, maybe this could be incorporated somehow e.g. hovering over the tag brings a box with the explanation.

[bdach]

My thinking is the most convenient place to show these would be somewhere on the beatmap listing, but I dunno how to execute it. There are way too many tags to try and display them in the already-sprawling filter control.

The best idea I have right now is to have maybe like a "tag" icon next to the "search" icon on the search box that when clicked pulls up a list of tags in a modal or a popover style view. Not sure. One for @ppy/team-web to maybe give opinions on.

[peppy]

maybe @arflyte has some ideas floating in his head?

[AJT127]

could there be a website provision for mappers to tag their own maps without having to play them?

on another note, certain tags may only apply to certain difficulties of a mapset. especially for large sets, this differentiation would seem necessary for people actually looking for the map with that skillset

[bdach]

certain tags may only apply to certain difficulties of a mapset

The tagging system already works per-difficulty though?

[AJT127]

certain tags may only apply to certain difficulties of a mapset

The tagging system already works per-difficulty though?

oh i hadn't noticed that, my bad, nice one

[AJT127]

could there be a website provision for mappers to tag their own maps without having to play them?

on that vein, shouldn't there be some sort of method for mappers to remove erroneous tags on their maps? especially for stuff like "old style revival" and "avant garde" which anyone could apply but might not actually be true of the map. this is also why i would've just removed the more subjective tags in the first place but someone else suggested this and it got shut down so /shrug

[peppy]

the whole point of the new system is to give the users a way to tag maps. the mapper should not ever had control over moderating this system.

[cyperdark]

Tags suggestion

• tap/doubles - patterns of two circles with same bpm
• tap/triples - patterns of three circles with same bpm
• tap/polyrhythm or rhythm/poly, for maps like sputnik (not sure if it's right name for bpm changes throughout the map

[cyperdark]

similar to tap/stamina will be nice to have a aim/stamina, maps like this:

• https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1902178#osu

[cyperdark]

also tap/accelerating for accelerating streams and bursts:

• https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1816952#osu/3727508
• https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1826036#osu/3747453

[cyperdark]

tap/cut bursts:

• https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/812921#osu/1704984

[cyperdark]

tap/spaced bursts

[WitherFlower]

Another suggestion : rename "old style revival" to simply "old style", as people are using the tag on old maps anyway. If anything, someone looking for an old style "revival" maps (whatever that means) should just search for "old style" and year>2015 or something

[bdach]

will be completed after #32657 wrt code, there's also proposals of new tags from the NAT that we're yet to import alongside

[bdach]

#32568 (comment) covers this

[bdach]

tracked as ppy/osu-web#12051 I guess

[cyperdark]

it will be nice to know how many beatmaps tags did i submitted, a count somewhere here will work, i think
I don't know how important this one to have

[bdach]

Disagree with this one. I think it would give people wrong incentives.

[cyperdark]

then it can be placed on watchlist page

[cyperdark]

A web page to quickly change/view your submitted tags, someting similar to watchlists for mappers

[bdach]

@SupDos see #32568 (reply in thread) I guess

[tovc]

a recent example is the daily challenge week where old nightcore beatmaps were picked

Yeah okay, I'll give you that one. I suppose hiding tags from daily challenge might help some? I feel like this isn't so much an issue of deliberate erroneous tagging, so much as it is people simply not knowing better

[tovc]

Like it or not we need some carrots to get people to use lazer.

We might be at an impasse here. I think tags are a big enough feature to give some thought to stable players, more so than just 'they might turn into lazer players'. I don't expect tagging in the stable client or anything, but being able to tag from scores on the web would be nice

[bdach]

I feel like this isn't so much an issue of deliberate erroneous tagging, so much as it is people simply not knowing better

if people "don't know better" in the context of daily challenge, then how are they going to "know better" in normal solo play or in multiplayer? this makes no sense to me. sounds like the tagging system is the issue in this case rather than where it is accessible from to me.

[tovc]

how are they going to "know better" in normal solo play or in multiplayer?

Oh, I know they won't. The difference is that daily challenge concentrates a lot of that type of player on a single map's tags. Elsewhere, the idea is that there's enough people that tag a map properly, such that erroneous tags don't meet the required threshold to be applied to the map. You do make a good point about tags though- OMDB designed them around the 'power user's understanding of the game, and not around the average player

[tovc]

Make tags their own 'thing' in search bars

Many modern websites and software treat tags as their own thing, separate from text in a search field, but allow them to be entered in, alongside text. The example I'm going to is Discord's channel search tags.

These are functionally identical to just typing "tap/streams" for example, but the quotation marks are implicit. The idea would be that you'd be able to type tag:tap/streams, and that'd be be converted into a single object in a text field. Bonus points for having some kind of autocomplete dropdown. As a bonus, that'd be a good way to display the full list of tags to users

[Givikap120]

There should be an option to downvote wrong tags.

[Givikap120]

Also, I propose changing those tags:
"spaced jumps" -> "high-spaced jumps" / "cross-screen jumps" (reason: more wide-spread term)
"wide aim" -> "obtuse aim" (reason: people think that wide means high-spaced instead of wide-angled)
"complex snap" -> "complex rhythm" (reason: people mistake this with aim-control)
"speed" should be moved from category "tech" to category "tap"
"tech: accuracy" - in general pretty confusing. Many farm map have high OD but they're not tech. If it's more towards difficult rhythm - then there's already "tech: complex snap"

[cyperdark]

wide aim - I m fucking agree, I thought that too but forget to mention, it's need to be renamed

[tovc]

I think 'aim/wide-angle' is the most intuitive and neutral. 'Cross screen' is somewhat of a colloquial term, and it adds ambiguity when referring to jumps that aren't actually 'cross screen', so I don't think that it should be used.

[Givikap120]

I think 'aim/wide-angle' is the most intuitive and neutral. 'Cross screen' is somewhat of a colloquial term, and it adds ambiguity when referring to jumps that aren't actually 'cross screen', so I don't think that it should be used.

If it's gonna use "wide-angle" then it should be clarified in the description that "wide" means around 90 degree and higher. Because some people may consider perfect triangle to be a wide-angle pattern.

[WitherFlower]

might just be me but I thing that wide angle is pretty self-explanatory and widespread. i've never heard anyone talk about "obtuse aim"

[Nivalyx]

The writing of the tag's descriptions is not consistent with one another

Brought up in http://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/13171#issuecomment-2825326809.

(I can help with this if needed)

[bdach]

With all due respect, is this an actual problem that hinders understanding or readability or any of the descriptions, or just fixation on hypercorrectness?

[Nivalyx]

No, none of the descriptions are misleading or incomprehensible as far as I'm aware of.

Also no, this report isn't based on "fixation on hypercorrectness" or whatever that is. I just happened to -instinctively- notice the issue when I was reviewing the osu-wiki PR (as I'm a maintainer there), in which I then -also instinctively- went on to report my findings here just like what I've done with this and this before.

[bdach]

The game is not an encyclopedia, we do not have style guides or editors. As long as key terms are consistent, some variance in wording does not warrant action in my opinion.

[cerfeque]

How do i use this? I type "finger control" in map library search and get results that include "finger" and "control" in their names, but not the tag. Maybe add additional menu for tags? With option to include and exclude multiple tags. And also show map tags on map cover

[bdach]

you want tag=""finger control"" as the search query.

not sure what you're referring to by "map cover"

[cerfeque]

Oh so that's how you do it. In youtube video they said just type tag name in search.
As for the map cover i mean this.

Right now you need to click and go to the map page to see the user tags. Also i think you need show tags somewhere else where it will be visible right after you open the page, so you don't have to look for it, or scroll the page down. Also i think different tag categories should be different colors, so you can just give a quick look on it and tell "oh, that's and aim/tapping focused map" and etc.

[MChecaH]

Beatmap recommendations based on User Tags

The use case would be extremely similar to how other platform's tackle their recommendation algorithms based on user defined tags, particularly Steam is a good example for our intents and purposes. This would allow users to quickly find beatmaps they may be more inclined to play based on previous submitted plays on already tagged beatmapsets.

The idea would be as follows:

• Add a new General toggleable search option in the beatmap listing.
• The listing would — in descending order — show that users recommended sets based on the overlap of their user tags with the user tags of previously played maps.
• The recommendation weighting should take into account the top n tags of a user's previously played m amount of maps.
  • In more natural language, the higher rated a tag is in any given map, the bigger the impact it will have on future recommendations. This should be computed from a subset of a user's recently played maps to analyze their trends.

This would all be transparent to the user who would only have to worry about playing their maps, and toggling the option if they want to try the system out.

The actual implementation would of course be up to the dev team. But as a user, this appeared to be the most user-friendly approach to any semblance of a recommendation system. Albeit not the simplest one to implement, as the complexity falls on the recommendation engine.

Related discussions [1] [2]

[Siiiuuuuu]

Adding tags that are descriptive of a map not having something in it, kind of like an avoid filter would be great. For example, in jump maps that are mostly purely 1/2 and 1/4 rhythm, a simple triple or burst can be the bottleneck of the entire map making it sometimes lead to me not playing the map altogether because i want to purely focus on jumps and not triples or bursts. This can be either implemented in two ways, either a tag such as "no triples", "no bursts" or "triples" and "bursts" tags that can be avoided instead of wanted. Many things in a map can bottleneck a player not wanting to play it other than just what Ive mentioned, something like a rhythm change in a map which uses 1/3rds can also filter alot of players not wanting to play these types of maps. This could be avoided by having a "no/ rhythm change" tag.

[umuod]

There is work being done towards making user tags exclusion possible during search queries, see ppy/osu-web#12084.

[umuod]

I noticed there are tags for 'circle only' and 'slider only' for std. I hope we could have something similar for note only and hold/long note only in mania.

Related: #32961

[totallywaffles]

Some tags have been mistakenly put under the 'rhythm' category. Namely: chaotic, difficulty spike, high contrast, high sv, low sv, playfield usage, progression, repetition, and simple. IIRC the category used to be called 'song representation', and I can understand why it was changed, but obviously rhythm is incorrect here. Maybe the category could be renamed to 'gameplay', since these tags are somewhat related to style but affect the gameplay more than the style tags?

[bdach]

cc @peppy

[peppy]

that's weird, i didn't see those when performing the rename. will adjust 👍

[crestalgia]

been noticing sometimes maps are filled with unrelated tags
ie.

from https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2048401#osu/4276778
pherhaps we can only show the top 5 voted tags and gray out the rest, and only the top 5 tags would be searchable for the corresponding beatmap. this would be more representative of what a map actually belongs to.
i also suggest highlighting/showing only the particular map with a tag instead of whole sets, as different diffs can be wildly different from one another

[peppy]

Originally the spec was to not show tags below a cutoff value.

@nanaya has that been implemented server-side? Is that something we should be adjusting the client to support (ie hiding the tags with less than n votes) rather than the API request?

[bdach]

ppy/osu-web#12015 is the relevant issue. Doesn't look like it's been implemented yet.

[notbakaneko]

I think I was originally doing this along with updating the look of the tag display and got side-tracked by everything else. I think the client should filter the display client-side; it doesn't make sense to filter it out at the API level if the client still needs the lower count tags anyway.

[bdach]

I think the client should filter the display client-side

The client is already able to show a tag as "confirmed" at 10 votes. The main question is whether beatmap search also checks the threshold, rather than check for existence of any vote on a tag. That's not something that should be done client-side, I think?

[notbakaneko]

I think search including tags that aren't displayed would be strange, so those should be filtered out