@expresbodhi's Pool #788
Replies: 4 comments 24 replies
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Welcome and good luck on the journey. Btw I found your football. |
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On your questions... First, what kind of pool lights do you have? Are these incandescent 120v or do they attach to a transformer? Second, circuit breakers are used to protect the wiring not the device so what gage is the wiring from the lights to timer. Also, is there a GFCI outlet in the box below the switches? |
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It really is bad that you have 120v lights in a pool that do not have a GFCI. So that being said you are looking for a UL489 GFCI breaker that is less than the rating of the conductor. This means that it will trip before meltdown. So this means that if the wire is 12awg you can use up to a 20A interrupter and if the wire is 14awg (please check to be sure) then you can use up to 15A. If these are incandescent then they will draw a whole lot more power than if they are LED. Keep in mind I would not use a UL1077 device for this in any case because if you do convert to 120v LED lights there is still a transformer that is located in each fixture. UL489 is for branch circuit protection and if they are incandescent then 10A is not the right breaker, you are looking for 15A on 14awg. Or greater than 10A but less than 20A for 12awg wire. If these are LED then 10A will do but Eaton also makes these in higher ratings. Remember you are protecting the wire not the light. |
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Hi expresbodhi, I would like to just mention that your Intermatic timer is not likely the culprit tripping the breaker. It’s either the line wires coming in, or the load wires going out to the equipment, or the equipment itself. It all depends when the breaker trips, when the time switch is off, or on. Now, it looks like your setup was originally for a single speed pump that has been changed out to the IntelliFlo VSF. That said, the load side wires in the time clock that went to the single speed pump have been relocated to the same terminals as the line side wire terminals coming in. This would be done so the IntelliFlo would receive direct unswitched power at all times. I’m going to assume the breaker is tripping when the time switch is off. Reason being, the heater seems to be the only thing connected to the load side of the timer switch now. If it only trips when the time switch is on, then something wrong with heater, or associated wiring. You could try turning off the disconnect switch going to the VSF to eliminate it as being the problem. If the breaker still trips after that with both switches in the off position (timer & VSF) it probably the line wires coming in have shorted. This could be anywhere in the conduit run from the beginning to the end. From your pictures, it could be the line wires coming through any of the boxes shown in the pictures as the boxes appear to be over crowded internally easily causing a short.
As for the pool lights not having a GFCI, don’t be so sure about that. If I’m not mistaken, all permanently installed 120v underwater pool lighting since 1968 required GFCI according to the NEC. This does not mean all areas at the time adopted the ’68 code, but it was at that time included in article 680. I don’t know when the pool was built, but if it was sometime in the mid 1970s or later the pool light no doubt would have had GFCI protection in order to pass inspection. Just because we don’t see GFCI protection out at the pad location doesn’t mean the lights are not protected. Check the house electrical panel for a GFCI breaker, or a GFCI outlet anywhere along the conduit path between the house panel and the pool equipment. Unfortunately, it is possible for someone over the years to have removed it not realizing how critical a role it plays in safety. Also, what is the box facing backward in the picture; could this be the GFCI outlet? 
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The Box Facing backwards is the Junction box for the lights. From what I know, there used to be a pump house that the previous owner took out. Maybe the GFCI was removed then? I looked at the inspection documents and saw that the GFCI for the pool was not checked. I followed the conduit from the panel to the pool and there is no GFCI in line. Safest thing for me at this point seems like I should put in a load center with a GFCI. |
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I found a photo when we moved in and there was an additional junction box in line, so maybe that contained the GFCI? A acquaintance installed the enclosure and shortened the conduit a foot or so maybe responsible for removing it. Oddly, I had a 15A breaker turned off at the panel, which happened to be the light circuit. Since the conduit run is too small for a 60A load center, I will wait until we remodel the yard in the coming years. So I simply added a GFCI for the light circuit. In doing so, the pump breaker tripping issue seems to have alleviated itself. Was able to run the heater and pump with no issues.
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At least you have a GFCI in there now. What size conduit is run and what type is it. Is it EMT? |
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Day 1 I ran without the Vales using the schedule function, and now I am working to integrate the Valves and trying to understand how the circuits work. Getting there. |
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It appears to be a configuration issue from the looks of the logs. Notice how the Spa Is changing both valves: I re-imaged the Pi, did a new install and seems to be in the same state as before. |
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In spa mode both valves should be diverted (on). In spillway mode only the return valve should be diverted (on). And in pool mode neither valve should be diverted. The default position for the valve should always be both undiverted (off). If this is not operating your plumbing correctly you have one or more of the physical valves reversed via the valve switch. |
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That was the piece that was missing. I thought when setting the default valves position it was based on what the end user wanted and that setting the connection in the aux-circuit would toggle the valve. Now I see the default really should be the pool body, and setting the connection under the Pool or Spa doesn't matter and can be left blank in my situation. Thanks. Next Two Steps will be adding a pressure transducer to the filter and wiring the heater. |
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Looks like my heater doesn't have a fireman's Switch. It has a 3 wire connector for Automation, is there a suggested way to wire this without using the 3 wire, as I understand the 3-wire connection is only for two fixed temperature set-points. |
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There should be a jumper between two of the contacts. Dig up the manual for it. |
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Sorry for all the questions on this, trying to reconcile the differences between the manual and the lid, Is this com wire the place you are referring to? The ignition control board is a honeywell s8600f. |
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Best to go by the diagram on the heater cover.
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Edit… Since you have the water temp probe installed go ahead and turn the thermostat on the heater control panel to high and control the temp via Nixie. |
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That was it, excellent! |
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Awesome, happy to see you got it working; glad I could help you out 👍 |
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Documenting my journey to Share Body dream system. I bookmarked this project last year and decided to take the plunge when my Intermatic timer started tripping the breaker. We purchased the house in 2021 and haven’t done much in the way of improving the pool to date. My goals are to get to the stand alone dream system and then eventually add a Chlorinator.
Starting Configuration and Background
Type of Pool: Plaster
Pool Volume: 23,000 Gallons
Pump: Pentair IntelliFlo VSF Pool Pump 3.0 hp
Filter: Pentair Clean and Clear Plus CCP420
Chlorinators: None
Chemistry Controllers: None
Valves: Three manual
Heaters: Pentair Mini Max 150
Lights: Pool and Spa
Sensors: None
Shared Body Dream System (Pool/Spa)
Almost all costs include taxes and shipping.
Current Status:
I have the everything to complete the dream system in my garage except the valves.
My first real question is I see some users using the eaton 10a din rail circuits in their enclosures. Would those be suitable to use for the pool lights? I would like to move those switches into the enclosure. The current setup doesn’t have a gfci outlet so I would like to add one of those as well.
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