Documentation fixups

[markkerrigan]

• Removed extra line breaks before headers in Documentation.tid

[markkerrigan]

Question: how should we address GettingStarted.tid ?

I think the steps are straightforward, but as soon as you click on "Setup TiddlyWiki with your browser", you are sent to Browsers.tid.

Browsers.tid is setup as a table, but all of the methods are outdated. Instead I propose creating a Platforms.tid, and from there create a listing of the best supported methods of saving. It should be emphasized using a plugin is highly recommended, but also mention the fallback method of directly saving as a download (as mentioned in Advanced download options.tid)

[YakovL]

Hi Mark, everything's fine with your suggestions, I've mostly failed to answer quickly because I wanted to propose something specific for the ~GettingStarted issue.

I agree that we should rather create a new tiddler to list the saving solutions rather than try to "repair" Browsers.tid in the first place. In fact, I think that it's more reasonable to create 2 tiddlers: one with a dedicated list of savers (not sure about the simplicity/completeness [both of list of solutions and list of "but"s] balance yet) and one as a greeting tiddler for the top of DefaultTiddlers.

Here are my drafts, what do you think?

Setting up saving.tid

Although ~TiddlyWiki can save itself without any auxiliary tool, currently only "download saving" is available which doesn't seem to be the best user experience, so you will probably want to setup a dedicated saving tool.

With ~FireFox, Timimi is probably the simplest option: [[install|https://ibnishak.github.io/Timimi/#Installing Timimi]] the plugin, the app, and just open ~TiddlyWiki in FireFox -- saving will work.

There is a number of other options, each having some advantages and drawbacks. The list below is to help you find a tool to fit your needs:

• browser plugins (simplest to install, but require your TWs to be inside browser's downloads folder):
  ** [[SaveTiddlers|https://github.com/buggyj/savetiddlers]] is an extension for FireFox/Chrome (and some Chromium-based browsers like Opera)
  ** [[file-backups|https://github.com/pmario/file-backups]] is for FireFox and it switches TW's backuping to a smarter backup strategy of its own (slightly modified "Tower of Hanoi")
• desktop apps (don't have multitabs and some other features of browsers, require your TWs to be inside their folder):
  ** [[TiddlyDesktop|https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyDesktop]] – an older app, a bit focused on ~TiddlyWiki5
  ** [[nwTWcSaver|https://github.com/nwOkido/nwTWcSaver]] – a minimalistic approach using bare nw.js + a saver plugin
• servers (require an auxiliary installation, but provide the broadest options, work with any browser):
  ** [[MainTiddlyServer|https://yakovl.github.io/MainTiddlyServer/]] in PHP, suitable for both local and remote usage
  ** [[tiddly-node-saver|https://github.com/fallwest/tiddly-node-saver]] for node.js for local usage __
  ** there's also [[TiddlyWeb|http://tiddlyweb.com/]] which is a robust server solution but is probably an overkill as a saver
  All of the solutions above are supposed to work in most desktop ~OSs like Windows, Mac or other Unix family OS (Linux, Ubunte etc etc). While some of them work on mobile devices, those usually require another saver.

Savers for mobile devices:

• Android
  ** apps:
  *** Tiddloid [[released on GitHub|https://github.com/donmor/Tiddloid/releases]]
  *** Quinoid [[released on GitHub|https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases]], a less mature open source app
  *** [[AndTidWiki|https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.mgsimon.android.andtidwiki]], a closed source app (the first to support TW on Android)
  ** servers:
  *** MainTiddlyServer with [[Server for PHP|https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.esminis.server.php&hl=en]] ([[may not work|https://bitbucket.org/esminis/server]] in Android 10)
• iOS
  ** [[Quine|https://appadvice.com/app/quine/1228682923]] app

Also, you can store your TW(s) on a server:
[services/hostings]

(additionally to "__" and "[services/hostings]", I have a number of notes, see below)

Awakening.tid (supposed to be added to the top of DefaultTiddlers)

In 2015-2017 development of ~TiddlyWiki Classic was stopped due to advent of the backward-incompatible rewrite called ~TiddlyWiki5. In 2018, development was restored. Several new versions and new savers were released as well as some plugins; new updates are on their way targeting [[ease of usage, better appearence and explorability of TW's rich features|https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikiclassic/JadMsx2dCzs]] and also better architecture and infrastructure. You are welcome to join TWC friendly [[community|DiscussionForums]], propose and contribute changes or just get help if you're new to ~TiddlyWiki. Give it a try, it's a powerful tool to organize your thoughts!

As you can see, documentation on this site is very much outdated, but unlike in the past, it is also considered as the most suitable place to put up-to-date docs. So things updated after 2019 should be fairly relevant while if you find confusing bits in elder docs, you are encouraged to [[ask|Community]] and/or [[propose relevant updates|Contribute]].

Now these look ok to me (after filling the 2 gaps may be enough for the first update), but there's a number of questions and concerns about these:

• I'd like to minimize complications and avoid frustration for new users reading Setting up saving.tid:
  • some docs are not that good (for instance, docs of SaveTiddlers have header "Getting started (chrome TW5 only)" which doesn't seem to be correct, works with TWC too, should create a PR; or for nwTWcSaver the process of installation is described for the case of new TW, for an existing one user has to add the plugin first ..which requires saving) and I'm hesitating between "list first, propose fixes next" and vice versa.. well, ok, perhaps the first one is the way to go
  • should I add the Legacy section? So that one is aware of saving in IE, TiddlyFox, TiddlyChrome etc? What about TiddlyFox with Pale Moon/WaterFox/CyberFox? (some use this setup for saving)
  • what about TiddlySaver.jar? I haven't tested it for quite a while, should it be removed from the downloadable zip?
  • other potential methods? like Maxthon which supported (and supports?) ActiveX and can be used for saving? the download + refresh technique? tiddly-node-saver @ Android? [add links]
  • what about the minor "contamination" issue with the browser plugins (the footprint of SaveTiddlers and file-backups is smaller but still is there), the security settings and possible issues with adjusting them
  • it is also should be stated which solutions support upgrading, backuping, in what fashion; is a wider comparison suitable here or may be in a separate tiddler (main advantages, drawbacks, support of specific features like including, encryption via plugins etc)
  • generally, what would be a nice balance between completeness and simplicity here?
• I've also added the second paragraph to Awakening.tid on which I'm not that confident – again, I'm looking for a nice balance between being objective and making the intro more attractive for new users
• the __ gap is to highlight advantages of tiddly-node-saver, haven't figured those yet (but I know there are some active users)
• the [services/hostings] gap requires more research: for now I can list TiddlySpot (which have problems with support, we failed to contact Simon), using own hosting with one of the servers listed above (there's also [[HostedOptions]] but it's quite outdated) and may be github pages (which is quite a different user experience and I'm not sure it's good enough now to be listed).. or may be skip this part for now

What do you think? Do these drafts look good enough to publish (and what about the 2 gaps)?

[markkerrigan]

Yes, I like this structure for discussing saving options. I will create a new pull request with your draft for Setting up saving.tid, Awakening.tid, and DefaultTiddlers

I think we'll be working on this topic for quite awhile, there is a lot of conflicting content related to saving mechanisms and much of it is out of date, especially as some mechanisms have been deprecated / fallen out of active development, just to name a few:

• TiddlyFox
  ** Not available from the Mozilla Add-on library
• TiddlySaver
  ** This issue seems to imply there are significant changes Oracle has made to Java which make TiddlySaver no longer function.

Honestly descriptions of these mechanisms are a distraction. Yet I am thinking to myself there might be some extreme edge corner cases where could still using them. For example back when Dropbox supported OS X 10.4.11 Tiger, I edited TiddlyWiki in Camino and used TiddlySaver.jar with no issues. I imagine I could still open up my old Tiger system and continue to save a TWC without issue, but how many people honestly would be using a OS ten versions behind the current release? Not many, but this speaks to the longevity of the TiddlyWiki platform. I think there should be a brief mention of the legacy mechanisms, but not in Setting up saving.tid

Then the other question with talking about Setting up saving.tid is the level of detail. The way it is setup currently we have separate tiddlers for getting started on Browser - Operating System with screenshots (outdated screenshots). Even with TW5 this pattern continues, and is in need of some refactoring. I personally don't think we need these step by step directions for all of these platforms.

Overall let's keep Setting up saving.tid simple. Let's come back to everything you listed here under Advanced Saving.tid.